Detailed NFA Trust Information

my wife and i played it safe,we went with rusty.

As far as CLEO signature goes, I did some research on this before my first NFA form and before I decided on the Trust route. According to MSP (of course) THEY are the ONLY ones authorized to sign the forms.
I then called ATF and was told, " well all the ones I see from MD are from MSP". When I pressed the issue, I was told, " Well technically anyone who fits the bill on the form (i.e. County Sheriff) is authorized to sign." I called my Sheriff (Calvert) and also the sheriff in St Mary's (for a friend) as both said they saw no reason why they wouldn't sign the papers.

That's direct from the ATF and the CLEO's mouths.

New to MD shooters and new to Class 3 stuff. been reading a lot on this "trust" route.. Rusty, can you PM me your info? want to get some more info.

thanks

Wayne

when submitting your trust along with the schedule A and assignment of property, what do you list on both? from what I have gathered you can alter the Sched A as often as you need to, but the assignment of property seems more official. am I rite?

I guess im asking what the difference is between the two. Does your assignment of property need to be updated every time you add a new NFA item to your trust?

can you update your assignment of property or do you have to print out a new one?

ARenthusiast said:

when submitting your trust along with the schedule A and assignment of property, what do you list on both? from what I have gathered you can alter the Sched A as often as you need to, but the assignment of property seems more official. am I rite?

I guess im asking what the difference is between the two. Does your assignment of property need to be updated every time you add a new NFA item to your trust?

can you update your assignment of property or do you have to print out a new one?

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I don't know what the rule is in MD but my VA lawyer said that all I need to submit is the initial assignment of property ($1.00 funding the trust) each time I buy an NFA item. You do, however, have to update your schedule A and keep that for your records.

Hopefully Rusty will clear this up for us.

Why NFA trusts should only hold NFA firearms

Over the last several months, I have received NUMEROUS questions about:

A. placing non-NFA firearms in an NFA trust;
B. whether an NFA trust will shield firearms from whatever confiscation scheme Maryland or the Feds cook-up.

I've also received information that several, notable out-of-state NFA trust attorneys are advising clients in Maryland on the matter of placing non-NFA firearms in an NFA trust. I do not know whether these attorneys are barred in Maryland but I have noticed that these attorneys do not discuss the pros and cons of placing non-NFA firearms in a trust.

With regard to question B above, a trust of any kind WILL NOT shield your firearms from whatever sort of gun regulation scheme that the State and/or the Feds put into place. A trust functions as a separate person and is subject not only to Estates and Trusts statutory laws and common law on the topic but also all other laws in which the state resides. This is so because every trust is governed by the law of the State in which the trust resides. Therefore, if Maryland passed a law mandating the confiscation of ALL firearms, then the firearms that you placed in trust would still be subject to that mandate. Nothing in statutory law or common law shields trust property from other statutory requirements. Not to worry, however, because under Maryland law, it is difficult to transfer unregulated firearms to your trust and nigh impossible to transfer regulated firearms to your trust.

First and foremost, we must discuss how property is transferred to a trust. For titled property (e.g., real estate), one must transfer title of the property to the trust. This is why, when you open a bank account for the trust, the bank account is in the Trust's name and not your name. For non-titled personalty or personal property, you simply provide the property to the Trustee of your trust; however, while that transfer of ownership is simple on its face, the non-titled nature of the property makes it hard to document the transfer of ownership from you to your trust and once in possession of your personalty, the bailee or holder is complete control of the property.

Concerning unregulated firearms in Maryland (e.g., those firearms that transfer with a simple NICS check and do not require additional Maryland paperwork), your trust can manage them but you encounter the same problems that I point out above concerning the transfer of any personal property to your trust. There really is no formal record and, if you have multiple trustees, you are now placing control of your unregulated firearms in the hands of multiple people who, usually by the terms of the trust, have an absolute right to possession and/or control of those unregulated firearms. As a firearms owner myself, I certainly don't like the way that sounds and I wouldn't want to lose control of my firearms to such a degree.

Concerning regulated firearms in Maryland, while the firearm is technically personal property; Maryland creates title to the property by designating certain firearms as "regulated" and, therefore, registerable to an individual. The Maryland State Police does not recognize legal entities of any sort as legitimate owners of firearms. To transfer any such item to another person in the State requires filing of paperwork with the MSP. If one cannot transfer a regulated firearm to a legal entity - your trust - and instead must transfer the firearm to the trustee or trustees as the case may be, but multiple person ownership of a regulated firearm is impossible under Maryland law; how can one then reliably transfer the property to the trust? There are a great many facets to this problem but, for the sake of brevity at this point, let us just say that transferring quasi-titled property to a trust for management clouds the title to such a degree that I would not want to be the attorney forced to sort out ownership issues when a problem concerning passage and ownership of those firearms arises. Needless to say, the problems associated with transferring non-NFA firearms to your trust far outweigh any sort of benefit in having trustees manage the non-NFA firearms under a trust agreement. Ultimately, it is better that you simply pay to have an attorney prepare a will that specifically deals with the passage of unregulated and regulated firearms in the state of Maryland.

To find out why trusts work with NFA items in Maryland in light of what I've said above, well... you'll just have to reach out to me to find out.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this to us all. Lots of competing information out there, and its tempting to jump the gun given the current climate and possibly wind up getting into a sticky situation legally.

NYT Article on NFA trusts

Shame they didn't interview me

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/u...l-loophole-for-restricted-firearms.html?_r=2&

Now a MDshooters Industry Partner! Check me out in the IP section!

If you're interested in a trust, please read this before shooting me a PM. Thanks!

What information do I have to put on the Schedule A for a SBR? Until now I have only had suppressors. Thanks.

I just bought my trust from 199trust.com. It was a Gearhog special for $59. I entered all my information and 1 day later my trust was emailed to me. (I had entered the wrong email and they actually called to confirm delivery)

My BIL is an attorney who specializes in real estate trusts. He looked this trust over and said it covers the areas needed. Just that I needed to have something in the trust in order to activate it.

Yesterday I went to my credit union and they notarized and witnessed my trust and I added a $1 bill to the schedule A.

30 minutes later I was at Duffy's buying my first NFA item. I have been reading up about trusts for months now and finally fealt comfortable enough to do it.

This was my experience FWIW

Now to get this SBR issue worked out so I can do a form 1. Thanks to everyone that supplied information in the past. It was very helpful.

Edit: I used personal checks. One to the shop and a $200 one to BATF.

What do I need to do to ad a co trustee to my trust and change beneficiary? Assuming I have to have lawyer redo it and then send updated info to BATF?

Just have to write an amendment and have it notorized. Plenty of how to's if you Google it.

Here's an example of how to write an amendment.

http://www.lgggroup.com/html/plan-and-prosper-pdf/REVOCABLE LIVING TRUST Amendment_Form.pdf

Thanks, very helpful. Would I need to send a copy of the original and the amendment to ATF?

No, unless you're purchasing something.

Need some help. I've read as much as I can about trust and schedule A and all I've gotten is various answers and mixed reviews . What goes on the schedule A form on a trust? Is it a dollar, the firearm that I have in possession to make to a abr or nothing til I receive my stamp or what??

namelessname120 said:

Need some help. I've read as much as I can about trust and schedule A and all I've gotten is various answers and mixed reviews . What goes on the schedule A form on a trust? Is it a dollar, the firearm that I have in possession to make to a abr or nothing til I receive my stamp or what??

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you put the NFA item on it after you get your stamp back. I list description, serial # & location.

THANK YOU!!!! so leave it blank til its approved , then once approved, list my nfa firearm with serial # and location on the paper and send it to them.
I'm new to this and I have read so many mixed reviews .Im trying not to screw this up and get a headache .