Anyone load their own personal defense rounds?

Hi guys, if there is another thread on this out there please point me to it. I did a couple searches with unsatisfactory results.

I recently refreshed my carry/HD 9mm ammo supply and boy does it sting the in the wallet area.

I'm wondering if anyone out there loads their own.

I think I could put together something that approximates my round of choice for a fraction of the cost. (124grn Gold Dot +P) I realize that for just practice/range/competition ammo you just dont see the savings by reloading, but here I think there is $ to be saved.

I have a couple specific concerns. Firstly the resistance of my load against moisture and temperature fluctuations. Just how closely do hand loads perform vs the factory defensive ammo in this regard?

Also reliability is on my mind, however I am VERY careful with my reloads and shoot hundreds of them in competition, and I can say that I've never had 1 ammo related issue with my ammo.

What say the loading wizards on loading/reloading for carry/HD?

I like the CCI gold dot ammo in boxes of 50. Not so pricey, never an issue.

My reloads are very reliable, but for HD, I am not messing around trying to save a few bucks. That is like trying to get eye surgery on sale.

Some tool will be here shortly quoting a guy who gets paid to get his thoughts re-posted and read soon to tell you if you use reloads you will go to jail regardless of if the shooting is justified or not.

The States Attorney will argue you concocted some extra lethal bullet round to blow through more vital organs easier then the company with hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D.

Name Taken said:

Some tool will be here shortly quoting a guy who gets paid to get his thoughts re-posted and read soon to tell you if you use reloads you will go to jail regardless of if the shooting is justified or not.

The States Attorney will argue you concocted some extra lethal bullet round to blow through more vital organs easier then the company with hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D.

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Good point.

I missed the memo, were we supposed to take prisoners?

Name Taken said:

Some tool will be here shortly quoting a guy who gets paid to get his thoughts re-posted and read soon to tell you if you use reloads you will go to jail regardless of if the shooting is justified or not.

The States Attorney will argue you concocted some extra lethal bullet round to blow through more vital organs easier then the company with hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D.

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Same reason I don't like to alter my ccw firearm. They will use it against you in criminal and civil court cases.

Never killed anything that my reloads didn't work on but they are nothing very special except some of the shot shells for 45 acp.

kenpo333 said:

Same reason I don't like to alter my ccw firearm. They will use it against you in criminal and civil court cases.

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When has this happened? I ask because I've heard this, but I've also heard that this has never actually happened. A citation would be appreciated.

Golden Saber is stupid cheap right now with the rebates Remington is offering. I would stock up.

Ask your local law enforcement agency what they carry and use the same in your self defense firearm.

There are many reasons why, reliability, legal defense and liability are just a few.

How many rounds do you plan to shoot? For such a low number of rounds it just doesn't seem worthwhile to me. My choice are the Federal HST's in both 9mm and 45 acp.

I've "copied" Gold dot and XTP loads, for practice, even if my chosen defensive bullet isn't available as a component(HST), I can still match velocity and weight with a substitute bullet so I can still get a similar feeling load. Wouldn't carry reloads though, primarily because factory ammo has complex quality controls, ballistics test data, sealant, new nickel brass, and low-flash powders and that my ammo doesn't, and 50rd LEO boxed defensive ammo can be affordable.

Have discussed a few cases here and in classes where a prosecutor or plaintiff attorney tried promoting various characteristics of a firearm or ammo for their purpose, it's their job to use any little thing they can to benefit their client, but pretty much never changes the expected outcome of the trial. There was a single case that Massad Ayoob discussed, as he served as a witness where some ballistics data wasn't admissible to potentially benefit the accused, because the only source of ammo for test data was to basically ask the accused what he loaded, instead of factory ammo that could be obtained from an impartial source. Essentially there is no proof of good shoots turning into convictions due to reloads, trigger jobs, or any other lawful attribute of a firearm or ammo.

There are plenty of good shoots that end badly in court because honest people can't keep their mouth shut around police, or they don't seek out a good lawyer quickly, Harold Fish being the prime example. The Fish case was an example of how an innocent person can make enough mistakes to get themselves convicted after a shooting, but it's also a n exceedingly rare example where a prosecutor's expected rant about " extra deadly bullets fired by a hand cannon designed to KILL!!!" was not rebutted well by Fish's inept attorney, and may have contributed to his conviction along with hundreds of other mistakes. If someone uses a good defensive handload, I wouldn't knock them for carrying it, but there are enough downsides I'd rather spend a couple bucks more for factory ammo.

CypherPunk said:

Ask your local law enforcement agency what they carry and use the same in your self defense firearm.

There are many reasons why, reliability, legal defense and liability are just a few.

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Can't argue with that, but I could argue that carrying a similar round is as good as long as it is not a "cop killer, Black Talon".

Also, how can anyone tell you are shooting reloads? Do they disassemble your ammo?

montoya32 said:

Can't argue with that, but I could argue that carrying a similar round is as good as long as it is not a "cop killer, Black Talon".

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I stopped carrying black talons for that reason.

Aamdskeetshooter said:

How many rounds do you plan to shoot? For such a low number of rounds it just doesn't seem worthwhile to me. My choice are the Federal HST's in both 9mm and 45 acp.

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Between practice, matches, and running classes I often shoot more than 1000rnds a month almost year around. Now those have been either bulk ammo or my competition loads but I have been thinking for a while that I should really be running my defensive ammo more in practice and in my classes because the recoil characteristics and even point of aim/impact are different especially from my competition loads.
What I am now thinking is to simply load some hot practice rounds under a 124grn plated round nose that mimics the shooting characteristics of my defensive round and run that in practice/teaching.

I try to duplicate as close as possible the SD loads I like and then use them just for practice. I'm not sure I save that much money but I enjoy reloading anyway and it allows me to shoot more.

montoya32 said:

Also, how can anyone tell you are shooting reloads? Do they disassemble your ammo?

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Yes. They will also test the gun to determine if any safeties were disabled or if it has a "hair" trigger.

alucard0822 said:

I've "copied" Gold dot and XTP loads, for practice, even if my chosen defensive bullet isn't available as a component(HST), I can still match velocity and weight with a substitute bullet so I can still get a similar feeling load. Wouldn't carry reloads though, primarily because factory ammo has complex quality controls, ballistics test data, sealant, new nickel brass, and low-flash powders and that my ammo doesn't, and 50rd LEO boxed defensive ammo can be affordable.

Have discussed a few cases here and in classes where a prosecutor or plaintiff attorney tried promoting various characteristics of a firearm or ammo for their purpose, it's their job to use any little thing they can to benefit their client, but pretty much never changes the expected outcome of the trial. There was a single case that Massad Ayoob discussed, as he served as a witness where some ballistics data wasn't admissible to potentially benefit the accused, because the only source of ammo for test data was to basically ask the accused what he loaded, instead of factory ammo that could be obtained from an impartial source. Essentially there is no proof of good shoots turning into convictions due to reloads, trigger jobs, or any other lawful attribute of a firearm or ammo.

There are plenty of good shoots that end badly in court because honest people can't keep their mouth shut around police, or they don't seek out a good lawyer quickly, Harold Fish being the prime example. The Fish case was an example of how an innocent person can make enough mistakes to get themselves convicted after a shooting, but it's also a n exceedingly rare example where a prosecutor's expected rant about " extra deadly bullets fired by a hand cannon designed to KILL!!!" was not rebutted well by Fish's inept attorney, and may have contributed to his conviction along with hundreds of other mistakes. If someone uses a good defensive handload, I wouldn't knock them for carrying it, but there are enough downsides I'd rather spend a couple bucks more for factory ammo.

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Well presented! Even though it represents a tiny percentage of what I shoot, I also lean toward factory ammo for defensive purposes, for many of the same reasons stated above. Today's defensive factory ammunition is undoubtedly better than ever.

Another reason is that perception is indeed oftentimes "reality", in this area and elsewhere, whether factual or otherwise. Especially true when attorneys are involved. They quite literally "practice" law. Their goal necessarily is to win their case. Either dazzle with brilliance, or baffle with bull&hit, or combine elements of both. Good ones are expert at both. Both methodologies can be effective. As also mentioned, Massad Ayoob had much to say about this, and is arguably the writer most responsible years ago for highlighting potential issues. Real or imagined issues in the grand scheme of things? Take your pick, but not unreasonable to suggest that it's easier to speculate, when one's self isn't the test case.

http://www.gundigest.com/gun-blogs/books/handloads-not-a-good-idea-for-concealed-carry

It's important IMO to realize the timing and the historical background of Ayoob's work. His early writings in particular occurred in a time of radical transition with regard to handguns and ammunition both. So called Wonder Nines, accompanied by their increased capacity, came to overtake the more than century long dominance of the typically fewer round capacity revolver. Standard police loads of typically 158 grain round nose lead chambered in what tended to be 38 Special transitioned to semi-auto pistols and full metal jackets. Hollow points in various stages of development and their increased prevalence in usage created a tremendous amount of press as well, being deemed safer and more effective by proponents, and evil incarnate by detractors. Note the date of the link below...a long running issue even in 1997:

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/07/opinion/hold-off-on-hollow-point-bullets.html

"Flying ashtrays", hollow point cavities "big enough to float goldfish in", "dum dums", "cop killer bullets", "exploding bullets".....all terms coined over time. Also common practice for revolver reloaders of the day to experiment with seating hollow base wadcutters backwards, making home made deep cavity hollow points, "sure to have been created" in potential legal spin by Doctor Sinister or the devil himself. Indeed, time marches on but the debate has never ended. Hollow point restrictions and bans exist today.

http://libertynews.com/2015/06/breaking-supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-hollow-point-ammo-ban/

I do load alot of my own target ammo that is close to factory specs.
Self defense ammo I load as backup ammo with across the counter ammo
loads as primary shots, never know when you need backup.