Why you need a Blue Gun

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    Several months ago I had a client contact me about doing a private course for him and a group of friends in Texas. As usual, I provided him with a list of things each person would need for the course. Knowing that money does not grow on trees, this list is minimal, and includes things that the attendee will be able to use after the class to continue training. For any classes involving handguns, the #1 thing on the list is a Blue Gun that not only matches their carry gun but also fits in the same holster. I am always surprised at how many people need convincing that they need a Blue Gun to train realistically.

    The primary cause of this is the concentration people place on weapon manipulation and marksmanship. People are obsessed with the speed at which they put holes into a stationary piece of cardboard and change magazines. These things are foundational and basic, but people seem to believe they are the most important part of using a handgun for personal protection; the truth is that the two most important things are why and how. Use of a live firearm, a firearm with a barrel insert, a Simmunition gun, or airsoft is no substitute for a Blue Gun for much of this training. You prevent the loss of valuable training time because everyone can see that all guns in the training environment are Blue Guns. Whether or not a live gun has been down loaded, or a training barrel is inserted, everyone spends more time checking and looking at guns for safety than learning. The second reason is that nobody wants to take the chance of dropping a weapon on the ground, whether it be a real gun or airsoft. The sound of a gun hitting the ground is always followed by the knowledge that it will cost money. At this point, some will ask why a weapon would ever be dropped. If your training does not result in weapons being dropped, you are not training realistically.

    The best way to train to deploy your gun against a living, breathing attacker is to draw it against a living, breathing attacker. There is NO substitute for this. This is where people whose previous training has consisted of all live fire, square range training find out that-

    You often end up with a very poor grip out of the holster and you either need to fix it or use it.
    That “jiggling” the gun in your hand to fix the grips often leads to dropped guns.
    That sometimes you get a hand full of concealment garment of your pistol and the only way to fix it is with your off hand. I have never seen anyone self-correct this the first time it happens.
    That the 21 foot drill is very misunderstood and misused.
    That sometimes you drop or toss your gun during the draw.
    That perfect draws only exist on the range.
    That rushing to put both hands on the gun increases task fixation and decreases situational awareness.

    The above list is observations before the bad guy even touches you. Then you have things like:

    An extended arm at contact distance allows the bad guy to easily push the muzzle away from his silhouette using nothing more than his natural protective response.
    That by simply hitting or slamming you into a wall or vehicle, the bad guy can cause you to drop your gun.
    That a bad guy pinning you against the floor or wall can prevent or hinder you from drawing your pistol. All carry options are not prevented equal.
    That to survive an impact or edged weapon attack, you will need to use your off hand for something besides holding the gun.

    During these physical contact drills the bad guy also gets feed back on things like timing and distance to fouling someone trying to draw a gun on them.

    Solid force on force scenarios should involve both drills and scenarios. Drills let you turn words into sentences, and scenarios allow you to turn sentences into paragraphs. Scenarios that involve a gun being presented should also include the person doing so to justify that and subsequent actions.

    So for those wanting to train in spite of the cost and availability of ammunition, it would seem that a Blue Gun is a good investment.

    Whenever using a Blue Gun for force on force training be sure to use a Dremel tool to remove the front sight to avoid injury.
     

    On_Target

    Active Member
    Feb 7, 2013
    222
    I just wanted to voice my support over your thread. It is concise and well conveyed and I find that you have made many great points. Good job, from a fellow trainer.


    BTW, any idea where I can find some of that blue ammo. in 9mm and .45ACP? It's crazy, somebody's hoarding because I can't find this stuff anywhere except on backorder. :lol2:
     

    parbreak

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 18, 2008
    1,070
    George,

    Great write up as usual and excellent point on dremeling off the front site as it's pretty much useless anyhow in these scenarios and contact distances. I can tell you first hand just how severely someone can be injured by the front sight when ripping it out of someone's hands. Was doing force on force training with a SIRT gun and I pulled back and the front sight put a very nice gash into another's hand between the thumb and forefinger. Severe enough his training was DONE for the day.

    Bryan
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,602
    Glen Burnie
    I find it interesting that some people don't think they are necessary. They don't even seem to be too terribly expensive - I found a site advertising an H&K USP 45 blue trainer for $40. Seems like a small price to pay for a trainer that might get dropped or otherwise abused when doing the meat and potatoes work of handgun defense training.
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    Idk man. I've dropped my airsoft plenty of times and it survived a car fire that totaled the vehicle.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    Another training aid( blue or red) gun point....... Finger out of the trigger guard when doing disarming drills. I've seen more than a few bent up trigger fingers that went back with the disarmed pistol. Owwwwy.
     

    parbreak

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 18, 2008
    1,070
    Another training aid( blue or red) gun point....... Finger out of the trigger guard when doing disarming drills. I've seen more than a few bent up trigger fingers that went back with the disarmed pistol. Owwwwy.

    Ditto. One of the "side benefits" of a properly executed disarm is that the trigger finger breaks.
     

    marko

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 28, 2009
    7,048
    Great write-up. Someone in the Baltimore training would be alive today
    except for the accident - "I thought it was unloaded."
    CopShop in Balt had alot of blue Glocks last time I was there.
     

    marko

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 28, 2009
    7,048
    Finger out of the trigger guard when doing disarming drills. I've seen more than a few bent up trigger fingers that went back with the disarmed pistol. Owwwwy.

    Great point, blaster!
     

    nedsurf

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 8, 2013
    2,204
    +1 for lots of blue/red/yellow/paisley gun training. Simunitions has an alarming rate of accidental shooting incidents nationwide.
     

    Tom Perroni

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 26, 2009
    1,199
    Virginia
    My $0.02

    First let me say that George is a very talented author and instructor, however I don’t agree with everything he puts out……Blue guns are a great training aid for shooters and instructors and Blue guns are absolutely safe lumps of plastic, and they’re instantly recognizable as such. You can holster them, twirl them and even point them at your pets and friends without risking criminal negligence. (Poor etiquette? Maybe.) Blue guns are good for instructors’ longevity and peace of mind, but they’re useless for building muscle memory for more intricate evolutions like reloading, weak-hand drills, getting a good sight picture, or clearing jams. Blue guns also run about $40, which is cheaper than a funeral but still a lot for a lump of plastic.

    I think I have a better way: for fourteen bucks you can replace your Gun’s barrel with an inert, bright yellow plastic stick from Blade-Tech Industries. Okay, it’s not really a stick; it’s a plastic non-barrel with a solid breech (no chamber at all) and a skeletonized ‘barrel.’ The plastic chamber block has the same external dimensions as a real barrel’s chamber block, including the tilting bolt lug, but it’s solid so it cannot chamber or fire anything. But it lets you manipulate your gun in almost every other way imaginable including dry-fire.

    It also advertises its “THIS IS NOT A LOADED GUN” status very loudly, both to you and to others.

    The barrel chamber block is bright yellow instead of blued or stainless steel, and a friendly yellow plus-sign replaces your gun’s ‘Mouth of Hell’ muzzle cavity. Both you, your friends, and your instructor can tell instantly that your gun is completely safe.

    Not only can you practice your draw you can also practice malfunctions and reloads and concentrate on handgun manipulation skills with the firearm you will be carrying. May I suggest some dummy rounds as well.

    However lets be real if we are going to train in CQB should we not use SIMS guns and ammo with the proper protective gear?

    Train like you fight …fight like you train….The more you sweat in training the less you bleed in battle.

    If your only tool is a hammer every problem looks like nail. I read something about the sights being useless at contact distance?......anyone who has been in a gun fight will tell that they do use the front sight…..even at contact distance…..want to learn how come to class and I will show you….it may not be the way you think but you will index it.

    Remember what I teach is "A" way not "THE" way!
     
    Last edited:

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,602
    Glen Burnie
    Tom, it sounds like the yellow plastic barrel and chamber block would be a great additional tool to the blue gun, but not really a replacement. I still wouldn't want to drop my USP during training. It sounds like together they'd be the perfect pair to train with, depending on the task being trained.
     

    Tom Perroni

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 26, 2009
    1,199
    Virginia
    Tom, it sounds like the yellow plastic barrel and chamber block would be a great additional tool to the blue gun, but not really a replacement. I still wouldn't want to drop my USP during training. It sounds like together they'd be the perfect pair to train with, depending on the task being trained.


    Sir,

    That is my point! Train like you fight fight like you train....I promise you will work harder on the proper grip and get it right the first time you drop your USP!

    more IMPORTANTLY if I am worried about droping my gun or mags should I be training with them? more importantly should I be using them for a defensive purpose?

    I say yes! I am not discounting the blue gun but feel that I have a better option. Now this may not work for you and thats ok. Its my $0.02 and my advice is worth what you paid for it.

    Stay Safe and keep training!
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,602
    Glen Burnie
    I understand what you mean, but in all honesty if you are afraid to drop your gun, you're carrying the wrong gun.
    It's not that I'm afraid of dropping anything, but I don't want to unnecessarily bang up a pistol I spent a fair amount of money acquiring, which is kind of beside the point that I really can't carry it here in Maryland anyway.

    Point two, can we keep the condescension out of the thread? I'm certainly not an expert, but I know more than a little and less than a lot - I know enough to know that having a blue gun is probably a good idea as a training tool.
     

    mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    In the some of the drills and scenarios guns end up on the deck a lot, just not once in a while. Much of it involved combatives with a drawn gun. If I were doing regular stuff then I would not worry about the occasional dropped gun.

    Even with the insert the front sight of a pistol will cut the hell out of your hand during weapon retention/disarm drills. Before we had blue guns we use to have to wear gloves.

    Lots of what we do is dedicated to when and how to deploy the pistol from disadvantaged positions. To do this with force I prefer using a blue gun. When it comes to the running the gun the barrel insert is a great tool. - George
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,943
    Messages
    7,259,756
    Members
    33,350
    Latest member
    Rotorboater

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom