Firearm seizure related to protective order (Baltimore County)

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  • survivorRob

    Active Member
    Apr 1, 2009
    275
    I think this is a gross infringement on our rights, 2 weeks/4 weeks however many weeks, it's completely unnecessary. It takes about 2 minutes to run a check to see if someone can legally own a firearm so you can throw that argument out of the window. It should be a matter of going to the headquarters with the paperwork from the Judge, waiting a few minutes, and getting your firearms that you can lawfully own and are legally yours.

    Keep this in mind. Just the words of ONE PERSON got his firearms taken away. Absolutely no evidence whatsoever. It then took a few weeks to see a Judge after a month long investigation from the Baltimore County police and the Department of Social Services found the claims without merit. The Judge agreed with the findings of the County PD/DSS, ruled the claims unfounded, and rescinded the order on the spot. Now he has to wait a few more weeks to get his firearms back and oh, by the way, your new in the box shotgun has been "test fired" because "that's what they do."

    I believe his lawyer sent a letter today, not sure. I'll keep everyone posted whenever he gets them back. I am anxious to see just how long it takes.
     

    TheRealSundance

    AK47..All you need
    Oct 21, 2008
    62
    I would take every part off possible before surrendering a firearm to the police. Down to the receiver only when possible.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    No, it is not just a matter of running an NICS check. The siezing Ofc and/or head of property division must decide if "they feel comfortable to give you a gun" . ( Note , I am not justifing this, just reporting.) Even if you are not Prohibited, if hypothetically they feel that you have propensity to be stupid with a firearm, or have potential to engage in domestic violence, or whatever, they won't want to return to you. Depending on the jurisdiction and the individual ofc(s) how hard tthey lean to caution.
     

    CharlieFoxtrot

    ,
    Industry Partner
    Sep 30, 2007
    2,527
    Foothills of Appalachia
    No, it is not just a matter of running an NICS check. The siezing Ofc and/or head of property division must decide if "they feel comfortable to give you a gun" . ( Note , I am not justifing this, just reporting.) Even if you are not Prohibited, if hypothetically they feel that you have propensity to be stupid with a firearm, or have potential to engage in domestic violence, or whatever, they won't want to return to you. Depending on the jurisdiction and the individual ofc(s) how hard tthey lean to caution.

    Absolutely correct. I've been told at least half a dozen times "off the record" in cases where I have had to sue to get a client's firearms back that they know they have no legal reason to keep them but just want a court order to cover their a** because they don't feel comfortable about returning them.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,533
    Columbia
    I think this is a gross infringement on our rights, 2 weeks/4 weeks however many weeks, it's completely unnecessary. It takes about 2 minutes to run a check to see if someone can legally own a firearm so you can throw that argument out of the window. It should be a matter of going to the headquarters with the paperwork from the Judge, waiting a few minutes, and getting your firearms that you can lawfully own and are legally yours.

    Keep this in mind. Just the words of ONE PERSON got his firearms taken away. Absolutely no evidence whatsoever. It then took a few weeks to see a Judge after a month long investigation from the Baltimore County police and the Department of Social Services found the claims without merit. The Judge agreed with the findings of the County PD/DSS, ruled the claims unfounded, and rescinded the order on the spot. Now he has to wait a few more weeks to get his firearms back and oh, by the way, your new in the box shotgun has been "test fired" because "that's what they do."

    I believe his lawyer sent a letter today, not sure. I'll keep everyone posted whenever he gets them back. I am anxious to see just how long it takes.


    THIS. What a total joke. No reason why it should take more than 30 minutes to get back HIS LAWFULLY OWNED PROPERTY. His physco ex should be charged with filing a false report and made to pay all fees and expenses.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    gabe72

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 26, 2012
    1,218
    sharpsburg
    Im not a big fan of lawsuits but i think some lawsuits need to be filed against some of the pd so they feel differently about handing over someones rightful propertty
     

    Name Taken

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 23, 2010
    11,891
    Central
    Im not a big fan of lawsuits but i think some lawsuits need to be filed against some of the pd so they feel differently about handing over someones rightful propertty

    To my knowledge there isn't a way to access a "financial damage" to this type of lawsuit.

    They have the attorneys on staff already getting paid. To have them handle the court process is nothing to them.

    Unless someone can access a monetary damage claim to the department they will be just as content waiting for someone to sue them and having a judge force them to return them.
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,318
    In this case, I think there is. The unfired shotgun had a resale value...fired, that value is reduced. This is a financial loss. And I'd bet it wasn't cleaned, meaning potential corrosion.
     

    montoya32

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jun 16, 2010
    11,311
    Harford Co
    I would take every part off possible before surrendering a firearm to the police. Down to the receiver only when possible.

    While I acknowledge this is just being spiteful, I wonder how LE would react to this? The law is that the lower or frame is the firearm, not the barrel or upper.
     

    Blackstar65

    Active Member
    Jun 27, 2010
    994
    I am sure this has been discussed here but I could not find anything by searching, so I apologize in advance.

    The low down is this. My friend called me last week to ask about how to get his guns back after a temporary protective order was rescinded by a Judge in Baltimore County. His crazy ex made all kinds of outlandish charges against him, got his guns taken away, but a Judge heard the case and threw it all out last week. I told him to call the Baltimore Co. Police headquarters. He called and was told to fax the Judge's order and "wait for someone to contact you."

    He got tired of waiting and called today. He spoke to someone there who received his fax that showed the protective order was rescinded. She told him it was a "two week process" to get his firearms back and that multiple people need to sign off on it. He was confused because at this point, they really have no right to keep his firearms. Then she drops a bombshell on him and tells him that his weapons were test fired "to make sure they work." He had a brand new shotgun that had never been fired before and was not happy to hear that.

    My questions: Is it legal for them to hold these firearms for weeks after a protective order has been rescinded? Is it legal for them to "test fire" weapons that don't belong to them? Can his lawyer get them released sooner?

    Thanks for any advice.

    He needs to contact the Baltimore County PD Firearms investigation unit. They will have him fill out some paperwork and run a background check on him. Once all this is done they will give him back his firearms if he isn't prohibited.
     

    240 towles

    master of puppets
    Mar 31, 2009
    4,251
    ?
    A few thoughts.
    If the firearms are not lawfully seized evidence of any crime, even if illegal NFA, or otherwise, any evidence obtained from a check of these firearms other than obvious violations (plain view), such as serial number tampering or a third pinhole, is unconstitutional, therefor, any evidence obtained from a firearms live fire check would be inadmissible as fruit from the poisonous tree.

    As private property not submitted for testing and if not seized under warrant, any incurred damage to the firearms would be the sole responsibility of the law enforcement agency. If a round were to go off out of battery or if the frame cracked, the agency would bear financial responsibility.

    If the firearm was banned in MD, it would be irreplaceable.
    Handguns previously owned from pre-FSA would also cause the individual to incur additional fees to aquire an HQL if needed plus the cost of the firearm.

    If an individual were to be attacked in his or her home in accordance with justifiable use of force laws and were able to prove they were unable to properly defend themselves due to the police agency intentionally holding lawful firearms from a non-prohibited person, then the said individual would have grounds to file lawsuit not only in civil court, but also in the court of public opinion, a very unhappy place for law enforcement right now.

    Seems alot of risk for a police agency to play with your toys for the hell of it. IANAL
     

    CurlyDave

    Member
    May 29, 2015
    47
    Oregon
    To my knowledge there isn't a way to access a "financial damage" to this type of lawsuit.

    They have the attorneys on staff already getting paid. To have them handle the court process is nothing to them.

    Unless someone can access a monetary damage claim to the department they will be just as content waiting for someone to sue them and having a judge force them to return them.

    I would at least try to assess monetary damage by finding a range that rents the same or similar guns.

    Damages would be the daily (or hourly) rate times the days (or hours) the guns are wrongly in police custody.

    Of course, I wouldn't expect that to be a final figure, but it would be an eye-popingly large number.

    * * * *

    As a practical matter, it may well be less expensive to buy new guns than to pay legal fees to get these back.
     

    highli99

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 10, 2015
    2,551
    West Side
    I would take every part off possible before surrendering a firearm to the police. Down to the receiver only when possible.

    Yep. I would not be turning in any components that are not legally considered firearms. They can wear out their own barrels / grips / stocks extra if they want to test fire.

    Hopefully I never need to worry about that type of thing!
     
    I have posted this story up on MDS in the past...
    I went through something very similar ~9 years ago with a psycho ex placing a bogus phone call to Baltimore City PD. The end of my "meeting" with BPD was them stating "Sorry about this, but we have to take these calls seriously. You can call this number to pick the guns up tomorrow". I hounded them and provided everything they requested- they got more outlandish each time. EX- they didn't say "We need A, B, C, D, E, etc." They said "we need A". Once I furnished "A", they told me they needed "B". Once I furnished "B" they told me they needed "C"... This process took 2 years for me to get my firearms back. The only acceptable thing was Ofc. Van Deems (sp?) in Evidence Control was always polite and professional.
    Ready for the kicker? I was never charged with anything, never had a restraining order, not even handcuffs.

    I have had a policy ever since... On duty, uninvited police will never enter my home without a warrant. Invited LEO's (on and off duty) are always welcome in my home. Uninvited and on official business, notsomuch.
     

    StantonCree

    Watch your beer
    Jan 23, 2011
    23,932
    Absolutely correct. I've been told at least half a dozen times "off the record" in cases where I have had to sue to get a client's firearms back that they know they have no legal reason to keep them but just want a court order to cover their a** because they don't feel comfortable about returning them.

    I can't speak for other agencies but I can tell you that is not our policy. I've never dealt directly with firearms and restraining orders as far as returning but I can tell you we give guns back. It's sort of a pain because everything has to be perfect, not just on guns but ANY property we return, because property is a hot LEO issue.

    On the other hand the United States Attornies Office (Our DA) has a policy not to return firearms and THEY are the ones we need to sign off on evidence guns before we can even chat with people about returning their guns. I got into it with one of them and had to go to his boss when attempting to get a MDS member his gun back.
     

    mcbruzdzinski

    NRA Training Counselor
    Industry Partner
    Aug 28, 2007
    7,101
    Catonsville MD
    When they are returned, they will be all scratched and dinged up as well, if coming from Baltimore County Gun Squad.

    Yours too? What a coincidence!

    I keep one of mine in the condition it was returned in as a reminder of just how much a vengeful woman can be and how little concern is given to property of the accused!
     

    Z_Man

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2014
    2,698
    Harford County
    anything that takes away due process or takes away your property without due process is too much of an infringement.

    this is why registration of guns is not acceptable, and that you should have access to arms in places other than your property.
     

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