Finn captured 91/30

AC MkIII · Oct 22, 2014

Picked this up at a pawn shop. Took a chance on it.
A Tula with SA stamp on the receiver D for the Finn D166 ammo
Finn stock. Counter bore barrel. Bore is dirty but I think it will clean up.

Dave91 · Oct 22, 2014

Got any overall Pics of the rifle? Is the bolt matching? I like the early button barrel band and potbelly stock.

yellowsled · Oct 22, 2014

Looks sweet! Love to know how much you got it for in a pm pls.

Any others there?

AC MkIII · Oct 22, 2014

The bolt is matching. Floor plate is not.
I will have to wait to get home to load up a full picture. I was having trouble on my phone this morning uploading stuff.
They didn't have any more in the rack.

Melnic · Oct 22, 2014

So this would be a captured Mosin from the Winter War right?
I would assume they captured them then did very little to them right after the Winter War so they could be ready for pending action? vs. reworking as an M39 after the war?

yellowsled · Oct 22, 2014

I thought there would be a "41" stamp on it if they were winter war capture.

Melnic · Oct 22, 2014

yellowsled said:
I thought there would be a "41" stamp on it if they were winter war capture.

What does that denote? Reworked in 41?

AC MkIII · Oct 22, 2014

yellowsled said:
I thought there would be a "41" stamp on it if they were winter war capture.

Not all and 41 by the resources I have read still are not sure what the 41 means for sure.

AC MkIII · Oct 22, 2014

Melnic said:
So this would be a captured Mosin from the Winter War right?
I would assume they captured them then did very little to them right after the Winter War so they could be ready for pending action? vs. reworking as an M39 after the war?

Yes, captured, check at the arsenal and rework what was needed then sent right back out. Some had nothing done to them based on the sources that I read.
M39 were stopped production at the beginning of the Winter War and started ramping up the M91s as they just had to make barrels and not the receivers.

Dave91 · Oct 22, 2014

Melnic said:
So this would be a captured Mosin from the Winter War right?
I would assume they captured them then did very little to them right after the Winter War so they could be ready for pending action? vs. reworking as an M39 after the war?

AC MkIII said:
Yes, captured, check at the arsanal and rework what was needed then sent right back out. Some had nothing done to them based on the sources that I read.
M39 were stopped production at the beginning of the Winter War and started ramping up the M91s as they just had to make barrels and not the receivers.

Correct, some 91/30's had no alterations except for D-166 cartridge modification. I have a 1940 Tula that is unaltered except for the SA and D stamps on the barrel. If a soldier needed a rifle, which many did, they would use whatever they could pick up from the Russians. There are photos of Finnish soldiers using 91/30's alongside Finnish Mosins during the Winter War.

AC MkIII · Oct 22, 2014

The full Monty

Abulg1972 · Oct 22, 2014

I believe that the "D" does not relate to the Finnish D-166 round but to the Soviet 7.62x54R round. The D-166 is the Finnish 7.62x53R round.

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AC MkIII · Oct 22, 2014

From what I read the D stamp indicates opening the throat of the barrel for the D166 which is a heavier grain fatter bullet.
But it is only what I read so I defer to the experts.

Abulg1972 · Oct 22, 2014

AC MkIII said:
From what I read the D stamp indicates opening the throat of the barrel for the D166 which is a heavier grain fatter bullet.
But it is only what I read so I defer to the experts.

I don't believe that this is a correct statement. The D on Finnish rifles does not mean it is chambered for the Finnish D-166 round.

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AC MkIII · Oct 22, 2014

What does it mean then?

h2u · Oct 22, 2014

AC MkIII said:
From what I read the D stamp indicates opening the throat of the barrel for the D166 which is a heavier grain fatter bullet.
But it is only what I read so I defer to the experts.

Great rifle!
You are correct. The, "D" is exactly what you think it is.

The 41 is a Continuation War capture stamp. A 40 would be for Winter War capture.

BUT, because the order to stamp these capture numbers wasn't ordered until after the Winter War had ended, no one really knew which rifles were which. So all were marked with the 41. To my knowledge, no rifles with a 40 have been found.

OP- I collect by year and arsenal. Should you ever wish to sell... I've got a hole where a Finned '32 Tula needs to go

Congrats again on a beautiful rifle.

Dave91 · Oct 22, 2014

Abulg1972 said:
I don't believe that this is a correct statement. The D on Finnish rifles does not mean it is chambered for the Finnish D-166 round.

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No, it is correct. The D was stamped when the rifle was modified to accept the Finnish D-166 round and also Soviet 7.62x54r ammunition. Do a quick a quick search and you will find multiple sources confirming this.

Abulg1972 · Oct 22, 2014

Well, what I do know is that a 28/76 marked D-166 will not, generally, accept a 7.62x54R round, but an M39 marked "D" will shoot 54R all day long.

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AC MkIII · Oct 22, 2014

h2u said:
Great rifle!
You are correct. The, "D" is exactly what you think it is.

The 41 is a Continuation War capture stamp. A 40 would be for Winter War capture.

BUT, because the order to stamp these capture numbers wasn't ordered until after the Winter War had ended, no one really knew which rifles were which. So all were marked with the 41. To my knowledge, no rifles with a 40 have been found.

OP- I collect by year and arsenal. Should you ever wish to sell... I've got a hole where a Finned '32 Tula needs to go

Congrats again on a beautiful rifle.

Thanks

Dave91 · Oct 22, 2014

Abulg1972 said:
Well, what I do know is that a 28/76 marked D-166 will not, generally, accept a 7.62x54R round, but an M39 marked "D" will shoot 54R all day long.

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By the time the M39 was being mass produced, the D-166 was standard. M39's came off the line being able to fire 54r. The M39 bore size was also made larger than previous Finnish rifles to accommodate this. Why some were D stamped anyway, who knows.

Finn captured 91/30

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