A warning on carrying spring-assisted knives.

glistam said:

Still, that a high court ruling was even needed for such a thing is frankly a bit worrying..

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Exactly my point. The question is not, IMHO, whether you will ultimately prevail in front of the MD Court of Appeals, but whether you want to endure the incredible expense and uncertainty associated with all the proceedings that had to take place prior to that time. A prosecutor can make your life miserable.

Simple things are getting out of hand.

buzzzyy said:

I was questioned by some cops for a matter unrelated to the knife.

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Oh please do tell. From the 50+ officers I have spoken with on knife law around the US, that "matter" might have far more to do with it than you think. 99% of the time, a potentially illegal knife is merely an technicality cops us for people who are belligerent, have known priors/gang connections, or are clearly acting suspicious but the cop otherwise does not have enough evidence to grab. Sometimes it's used during domestic violence to get one person out of the house for the night.

Is there no definitive answer to the simple question, "What the hell kind of knife can I legally carry or not carry?"?

Should be a cut and dried answer, but noooooooooooooooooooooo it's not.

Let's say all pen knives 3" or less that reside in your pocket are legal as long as there is no assistance in opening. OK ? One down.

Any knife that is assisted open no matter the size, carry at your own risk. OK ? Two down.

Pretty easy so far.

Non-folders, non-assisted, non-killers, not concealed but on the belt in a sheath open for all to see. Murky waters ahead, not technically a "Bowie" not a "Bayonet", but rather a camping/woodsman's knife. Regardless of size, this should be legal to carry openly no matter where you are, except on School Property, Court or other common sense places.

Sorry for not incorporating any conflicting Legal terms or for not using the hazy St of Md technical laws that are so obscure they are the prime reason for this thread and the number of posts and the still unanswered questions.

Are we making sense yet ?

marko12 said:

Is there no definitive answer to the simple question, "What the hell kind of knife can I legally carry or not carry?"?

Should be a cut and dried answer, but noooooooooooooooooooooo it's not.

Let's say all pen knives 3" or less that reside in your pocket are legal as long as there is no assistance in opening. OK ? One down.

Any knife that is assisted open no matter the size, carry at your own risk. OK ? Two down.

Pretty easy so far.

Non-folders, non-assisted, non-killers, not concealed but on the belt in a sheath open for all to see. Murky waters ahead, not technically a "Bowie" not a "Bayonet", but rather a camping/woodsman's knife. Regardless of size, this should be legal to carry openly no matter where you are, except on School Property, Court or other common sense places.

Sorry for not incorporating any conflicting Legal terms or for not using the hazy St of Md technical laws that are so obscure they are the prime reason for this thread and the number of posts and the still unanswered questions.

Are we making sense yet ?

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Here is my rule of thumb (actually more than one)
1. penknives without AO are fine and are nice tools to have around. Ditto for swiss army knives (they qualify as penknives).
2. AO knives of any type, I avoid cuz I don't want the potential hassle of enforcement discretion and abuse. Real switchblades are not worn, ever (talk to Maria in West Side Story).
3. Regular sheath knives of 4 inches or less, I carry on my belt when hunting or hiking in the woods. No risk of hassle there and the legal purpose is self-evident. They are tools. Big sheath knives while hunting or hiking are probably ok, but not a very good tool for gutting a deer (too big) and of limited utility in camping (the angry bear is going to rip you up, no matter how big your knife is -- a club would be a better weapon,. A .44 mag is ideal).

Name Taken said:

These threads always get sideways because people "think" they know something that's very complexed and every changing which is the criminal justice system.

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Yup, and I hate sorting through it all, figuring out which is real and which is a thought. Also interested in this thread, as I carry a spring assisted SOG.

I can't believe I just sat and read through this crap for the last half hour and still do not have the "real reason" of the "unrelated incident."

Send this thread to the recycle bin please.

Copper said:

I can't believe I just sat and read through this crap for the last half hour and still do not have the "real reason" of the "unrelated incident."

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I agree. What ever happened to buzzzyy? His last post was 12/17/11.

Good to know, hope it all works out.

Gunny1 said:

I agree. What ever happened to buzzzyy? His last post was 12/17/11.

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Seems the "unrelated matter" might have caught up with him?

Am I correct in intrepreting that a non-assisted folder is legal, even if its over 3.5"? I have a few AK folders that I got online (very nice quality knife for the price) that I sometimes carry around when walking the dogs along the back paths in Columbia. Its got a 5" blade and is 11" overall when unfolded.

http://budk.com/Knives/AK-Folding-Knife

If the blade folds into the handle and it's not a switchblade as defined by MD law it is a penknife.
It does not matter if it's assisted or not.
By MD law it could be 2ft folded and 4 feet open and it's a pen knife.

Thats what I thought. Thanks!

pop-gunner said:

If the blade folds into the handle and it's not a switchblade as defined by MD law it is a penknife.
It does not matter if it's assisted or not.
By MD law it could be 2ft folded and 4 feet open and it's a pen knife.

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Generally how I understand it too. There are much better threads in knife laws. Bottom line: any folder (not switched blade, assisted opener is ok though) is legal to carry open or concealed. Fixed blades ok too, but you may need an articulable reason if it's not obvious; like hunting, fishing, gardening, hiking, etc.

Md knife law is pretty permissive, no length limits; case challenged blade was 5", decision said its pen knife, 'and some are quite large'.

For my money, a good EDC utility folder is best around 3". YMMV.

pop-gunner said:

If the blade folds into the handle and it's not a switchblade as defined by MD law it is a penknife.
It does not matter if it's assisted or not.
By MD law it could be 2ft folded and 4 feet open and it's a pen knife.

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But the problem remains that the police in some cases are woefully ignorant of the law themselves. Pretty recently I even had one cop still holding to the four finger span measurement!

To avoid any problems I follow Minuteman's line of logic; a plain utility knife that has to be opened manually. To me it's no big deal since my edc is either a Gerber LST or san Opinel number 8. I don't mind having to open my knife with no gizmos or tricks. Been doing it my whole life and made it to social security geezer age with no problems.

Cops look for and notice what is out of the ordinary. Keep a low profile and there's no probemo.

cb51 said:

But the problem remains that the police in some cases are woefully ignorant of the law themselves. Pretty recently I even had one cop still holding to the four finger span measurement!

To avoid any problems I follow Minuteman's line of logic; a plain utility knife that has to be opened manually. To me it's no big deal since my edc is either a Gerber LST or san Opinel number 8. I don't mind having to open my knife with no gizmos or tricks. Been doing it my whole life and made it to social security geezer age with no problems.

Cops look for and notice what is out of the ordinary. Keep a low profile and there's no probemo.

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I agree with the low profile advice.
I do not agree with police interpenetrating law as they see fit.
My thought is, I know what the law is and if I'm arrested for breaking a law I never broke I will be paid for their mistake.
While not looking for a problem if a misinformed officer decides to encroach on my rights it will be my party and they will be picking up the tab.
It's pretty easy for me to complete each day without hampering anyone else from enjoying, and taking full advantage of all rights afforded them under the law.
I expect nothing more and will never settle for any less.

Just finished this thread. Have read several like it, but this one has particularly good insight.

My assisted opener is now retired to the go-bag. Just ordered a Kershaw RAM Flipper non-assisted for regular carry.

Why risk it?

pop-gunner said:

I agree with the low profile advice.
I do not agree with police interpenetrating law as they see fit.
My thought is, I know what the law is and if I'm arrested for breaking a law I never broke I will be paid for their mistake.
While not looking for a problem if a misinformed officer decides to encroach on my rights it will be my party and they will be picking up the tab.
It's pretty easy for me to complete each day without hampering anyone else from enjoying, and taking full advantage of all rights afforded them under the law.
I expect nothing more and will never settle for any less.

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That's a fine outlook, but I've found that the reality is a little different. Cops seem to know instinctively how far they can push things before it comes to paperwork. I've had a half hour out of my day because an over zealous young cop thought my number 8 Opinel was a weapon. It took his shift sergeant to get on the computer and verify that I was telling the truth about the Maryland pen knife definition. The let me go, but only after a maddening half hour of sitting in the back seat of a police car.

My crime of coming to his attention?

I stopped at a 7-11 to pick up a cup of coffee. They had the little half and half things in a tub of melted ice. Water. The pull tabs had got soggy, so when I tried to pull it open, it just tore off. I took out my nuber 8 Opinel and sliced the half and half open, and the cop who was getting coffee lept into acton to save humanity from the evil white bearded old guy on a cane who was having trouble getting soggy half and half containers open. He demanded to know why I was carrying an illegal weapon, and ordered me to set the knife on the counter and step away from it. I did so, and the argument commenced. I told him the definition of a pen knife under Maryland law, and he semi rudely told me he was sure that's what I would like him to believe. They he pulled the old 'hold the knife blade up against his fingers' routine, and pronounced it over the legal limit. It took a half hour to sort it out, and it wasn't until the arrival of his sergeant that stopped him from taking me in. Irony of it all was, the sergeant found the law in a few minutes on the computer in his car. Why the young punk in uniform couldn't do that, I don't know.

My dealing with both the Montgomery county and Maryland state police have been such, that it it my belief that too many of them have too big an ego and are borderline bullys. Like I said, I'm not shady looking, but wear button down collar shirts and dockers most of the time. I'm a senior citizen, so I've been around long enough to remember a time when cops were not such a bunch of young jerks with big egos, but somebody a citizen could turn to for help or a question. Not so now.

Both times I have been accosted by police officers, they stopped short of arresting me, so no grounds for a law suit. I did complain both times to internal affairs. Only once did I receive a letter of apology. Now I just stay away from cops, and if I have to use a knife in public, I'll use the tiny Swiss Army knife on my keyring.

Cops don't know the law, and they sort of make it up as they go. Even if we're in the right, it still will cost us time and money out of my social security funds to fight it. Better just to regard them as the enemy.

cb51 said:

That's a fine out;ooh, but I've found that the reality is a little different. Cops seem to know instinctively how far they can push things before it comes to paperwork. I've had a half hour out of my day because an over zealous young cop thought my number 8 Opinel was a weapon. It took his shift sergeant to get on the computer and verify that I was telling the truth about the Maryland pen knife definition. The let me go, but only after a maddening half hour of sitting in the back seat of a police car.

My crime of coming to his attention?

I stopped at a 7-11 to pick up a cup of coffee. They had the little half and half things in a tub of melted ice. Water. The pull tabs had got soggy, so when I tried to pull it open, it just tore off. I took out my nuber 8 Opinel and sliced the half and half open, and the cop who was getting coffee lept into acton to save humanity from the evil white bearded old guy on a cane who was having trouble getting soggy half and half containers open. He demanded to know why I was carrying an illegal weapon, and ordered me to set the knife on the counter and step away from it. I did so, and the argument commenced. I told him the definition of a pen knife under Maryland law, and he semi rudely told me he was sure that's what I would like him to believe. They he pulled the old hold the knife blade up against his fingers and pronounced it over the legal limit. It took a half hour to sort it out, and it wasn't until the arrival of his sergeant that stopped him from taking me in. Irony of it all was, the sergeant found the law in a few minutes on the computer in his car. Why the young punk in uniform couldn't do that, I don't know.

My dealing with both the Montgomery county and Maryland state police have been such, that it it my belief that too many of them have too big an ego and are borderline bullys. Like I said, I'm not shady looking, but wear button down collar shirts and dockers most of the time. I'm a senior citizen, so I've been around long enough to remember a time when cops were not such a bunch of young jerks with big egos, but somebody a citizen could turn to for help or a question. Not so now.

Both times I have been accosted by police officers, they stopped ashore of arresting me, so no grounds for a law suit. Only once did I receive a letter of apology. Now I just stay away from cops, and if I have to use a knife in public, I'll use the tiny Swiss Army knife on my keyring.

Cops don't know the law, and they sort of make it up as they go. Even if we're in the right, it still will cost us time and money to fight it. Better just to regard them as the enemy.

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Unfortunately, I mostly agree with you. Not all Cops are bad or overzealous, but the few that are strike an unreasonable fear, even in those of us that are law-abiding.

Sympathetic as I am to keeping to the letter of the law, especially for those empowered to enforce it, I think if I were hassled about a "penknife" in MD, I'd ask if I was being detained. Absent a positive answer, I'd walk away, secretly hoping for an arrest, with a subsequent fat jugdement.

I'm a greyhaired geezer myself, and tired of being pushed about by people who should know better. Education can be expensive, but if they need it, they can pay me for a lesson.

My edc is a 3.9 inch Benchmade 701. I have a spare if they take it away. I have enough money for a phone call to a awyer who would like to make some money and get some publicity.