SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

jonnyl · Mar 9, 2012

esqappellate said:
Right, from Judge Legg, it goes to the court of appeals in Richmond. If they lose there, conceivably they could ask the SCT to review the case before judgment but they are not going to that. Such requests are extremely rare and even more rarely granted. Probably not to going to happen here. The courts are cautious. Understand this: Judge Legg's order changes the status quo with an order striking down a state statute on constitutional grounds which are, legally, still subject to intense legal debate. It is not unusual for the courts to issue a stay keeping the status quo intact pending completion of litigation. A stay would not mean we would lose on appeal, it may just mean that the courts want to proceed cautiously. You will have to read carefully any stay order to assess the court's rationale.

Is it a valid reason to grant a stay because of the difficulty of "undoing" the effects in the event that the appeal is successful? I'm wondering if even though folks feel that this case is a winner on the merits, could the stay be granted just to keep the barn door closed. (assuming for argument's sake that neither Judge Legg nor the 4th believe the "blood in the streets" reasoning)

Rossi357 · Mar 9, 2012

AliasNeo07 said:
I wonder if going 88 in a 55 could have carried a sentence of more than a year in jail or could preclude me from this somehow.

If someone is doing 88 in a 55, Maybe they should rethink owning a car and a gun.

esqappellate · Mar 9, 2012

jonnyl said:
Is it a valid reason to grant a stay because of the difficulty of "undoing" the effects in the event that the appeal is successful? I'm wondering if even though folks feel that this case is a winner on the merits, could the stay be granted just to keep the barn door closed. (assuming for argument's sake that neither Judge Legg nor the 4th believe the "blood in the streets" reasoning)

It is certainly something that the court can look to in exercising its equitable discretion. A stay just keeps the status quo in place pending appellate resolution of the merits.

Kashmir1008 · Mar 9, 2012

esqappellate said:
Not dumb at all. There is an elaborate 4 part test that he has to apply in ruling on a stay motion and the inquiry is different than the merits. Folks here probably don't fully appreciate this, but striking down the laws of a sovereign state is a big deal. Judges should do that with caution. The state is waving the bloody flag of public safety, a matter that traditionally lies within the province of the state. Besides, don't you know that "GUNS ARE DANGEROUS"!!! (Sorry, couldn't help myself). It is hard issue addressed to the court's equitable discretion.

So just out of curiosity, would a Judge take into account statistics in their decision as to whether there is in fact a public safety issue? It seems to me there are 42 other examples that clearly show CCW is not a public safety issue.

Gray Peterson · Mar 9, 2012

esqappellate said:
It is certainly something that the court can look to in exercising its equitable discretion. A stay just keeps the status quo in place pending appellate resolution of the merits.

MSP can revoke licenses, & there are criminal penalties for refusing to return...

esqappellate · Mar 9, 2012

Kashmir1008 said:
So just out of curiosity, would a Judge take into account statistics in their decision as to whether there is in fact a public safety issue? It seems to me there are 42 other examples that clearly show CCW is not a public safety issue.

Sure. The judge doesn't have to buy into the State's assertion of harm at all. The "streets will run red with the blood of innocents" is overwrought -- this judge has already seen that. The judge will confine himself to the record before him, at least he is supposed to.

esqappellate · Mar 9, 2012

Gray Peterson said:
MSP can revoke licenses, & there are criminal penalties for refusing to return...

yup, something that the judge is likewise entitled to consider. I am curious to how Alan Gura will play this in his papers due March 16.

knownalien · Mar 9, 2012

the only real chance gansler has is "outside the home." everything else is meaningless because it somehow implies Maryland is a special case (which it is!) in terms of what gun owners will do once they get their CCP. That precedent has already been set all across the nation and Gansler's premise there is laughable.

krucam · Mar 9, 2012

Kashmir1008 said:
So just out of curiosity, would a Judge take into account statistics in their decision as to whether there is in fact a public safety issue? It seems to me there are 42 other examples that clearly show CCW is not a public safety issue.

Statistics are the only argument the Defendants can raise. Statistics are also irrelevant when discussing whether an enumerated right can be restricted...

One of many great Alan Gura quips from last year in a Woollard MSJ response: http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772.34.0.pdf

Alan Gura said:
Without question, firearms are a leading cause of statistics, and the debate about which figures are superior is not one that will ever be truly resolved, in an absolute sense.

and also from that same brief:

Alan Gura said:
The Supreme Court has thus emphatically laid down two ultimate instructions regarding Second Amendment litigation. First, judges may not engage in any balancing inquiry to determine the content of Second Amendment rights.
Like the rest of the Constitution, the Second Amendment contains the plain meaning that the Framers understood its language to possess. Text and history, not the opinions of police officers and academics, determine the content of our fundamental constitutional rights.

Norton · Mar 9, 2012

OnTarget said:
I'd like to hear from any out-of-staters that are applying for the MD CCW.

There are a lot of VA people applying. Gray is also applying.

Storm40 · Mar 9, 2012

esqappellate said:
yup, something that the judge is likewise entitled to consider. I am curious to how Alan Gura will play this in his papers due March 16.

win, lose or draw next week, I'm very much looking forward to reading Mr. Gura's submission.

csanc123 · Mar 9, 2012

Rossi357 said:
If someone is doing 88 in a 55, Maybe they should rethink owning a car and a gun.

I take it you've never driven on 270 or 495 or any other highway for that matter.

dlmcbm · Mar 9, 2012

if anyone is interested
Delegate Mike Smigiel on Fox45 Baltimore re: gun rights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TF8kgiYphQ&feature=youtu.be&hd=1

hvymax · Mar 9, 2012

Rossi357 said:
If someone is doing 88 in a 55, Maybe they should rethink owning a car and a gun.

Somebody is in serious need of a set. Crap in my younger days life began at 170.

teratos · Mar 9, 2012

Norton said:
There are a lot of VA people applying. Gray is also applying.

It would be nice if there were enough people applying to significantly impact the MD 97% approval rate, just in case MSP continues with business-as-usual.

esqappellate · Mar 9, 2012

csanc123 said:
I take it you've never driven on 270 or 495 or any other highway for that matter.

Heck, you can get over 55 on Interstate 70 near Hancock ...... at 3:00am...

jmcgonig · Mar 9, 2012

krucam said:
One of many great Alan Gura quips from last year in a Woollard MSJ response: http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772/gov.uscourts.mdd.180772.34.0.pdf

That was a good read, thanks for posting.

Hopalong · Mar 9, 2012

Just got my prints/photos at MD Livescan in Glen Burnie. App goes in the mail Monday.

B^)

dlmcbm · Mar 9, 2012

Hopalong said:
Just got my prints/photos at MD Livescan in Glen Burnie. App goes in the mail Monday.

B^)

I would get it in the mail TODAY!!!! they say it must be received within 72 hours of getting your prints done.

ibang1 · Mar 9, 2012

LiveScan

Went to LiveScan this morning/afternoon. The process was too easy! and a great one stop shop.

1. Filled out application
2. Registered and Paid Online with LiveScan
3. Arrived at Glen Burnie
4. Completed notary and photo.
Vain took the necessary forms, picture and business card and stapled all the paperwork that needs to be sent.
Went to post office and mailed application certified.

I'm done! :lol:

SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Active Member

President, MSI

MSI Executive Member

Active Member

President, MSI

President, MSI

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Banned

My hair is amazing

President, MSI

Active Member

Man of Many Nicknames

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics