Bill Status Thread

Schipperke · Mar 25, 2015

Gryphon said:
Don't make the mistake of mixing and matching fundamental, enumerated, constitutionally protected rights, with referendum issues.

And lets not mistake mixing and matching legislation to enumerate it. It is no different than a referendum approach. One is direct democracy the other representative.

ShallNotInfringe · Mar 25, 2015

I believe you can only referendum passed bills to have them repealed.

The Referendum Process
Any person or group may attempt to void an Act or any part of an Act passed by the General Assembly by referring that Act to a vote of the electorate in a General Election. This is accomplished by obtaining the requisite number of signatures on a referendum petition and submitting that petition, along with other required documents, to the Secretary of State within a specified period of time. If the legal requirements are met, including confirmation of the number and validity of voters' names, the question of whether the referred Act will take effect will appear on the general election ballot.

MJD438 · Mar 25, 2015

ShallNotInfringe said:
I believe you can only referendum passed bills to have them repealed.

Correct

fabsroman · Mar 25, 2015

Schipperke said:
And lets not mistake mixing and matching legislation to enumerate it. It is no different than a referendum approach. One is direct democracy the other representative.

You are right. Let's put Shall Issue to referendum. Thing is, they need to PASS Shall Issue before it can be put to a referendum. Wish FSA2013 had gone to referendum after it was passed so I would know exactly where Marylanders stand on the 2nd Amendment, but it wasn't. I think passing Shall Issue and seeing what the citizens of Maryland do after it is passed is a good way to figure this issue out. Gun control has been used at the state and national level as a hot button topic, but it is such a small issue. I wonder how many people actually vote for their representatives solely on where that representative stands on gun control. I also wonder how many gun control nuts are really in Maryland.

Yep, pass Shall Issue and lets see if they can even get the requisite affidavits for a referendum vote, and then if they can get the required votes for the referendum.

DC-W · Mar 25, 2015

Referendums will never work. It's those damn NRA agents :innocent0

Mr H · Mar 25, 2015

ShallNotInfringe said:
I believe you can only referendum passed bills to have them repealed.

And, as we've come to see, subjecting an enumerated Right to referendum can end badly, and should never be done in an adversarial state.

See: Washington State

fabsroman · Mar 25, 2015

Mr H said:
And, as we've come to see, subjecting an enumerated Right to referendum can end badly, and should never be done in an adversarial state.

See: Washington State

Think we have already beat this horse to death, but I'll give it another whack just to make sure. lol

Thing is, you can always go to court after the referendum.

Time will tell how letting the courts determine our 2nd Amendment Right will go. We lost round one. After what the 4th Circuit did with Woolard, I'm not too optimistic, but maybe the word is getting out from the rest of the nation that us peon citizens are not going to put up with infringements on our Rights, any of them, anymore. It is my belief that any court can find legal reasoning/precedent to support the way they want to rule. That is what was done at the District Court level. So, it really comes down to how the judges feel on the subject, which SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ShallNotInfringe · Mar 25, 2015

DC-W said:
Referendums will never work. It's those damn NRA agents

LMAO!!!!

Schipperke · Mar 26, 2015

DC-W said:
Referendums will never work. It's those damn NRA agents

That is the crux of the biscuit really. If there could ever be a direct vote (informed not possible regardless) my belief it would go down in flames. When people here complain that the delegates are not honoring constituents, it is really a hollow claim. We are in a huge minority in this state. One member got it right, "noise does not mean progress". One comment long ago rings true about how there never seems to be much in person public testimony supporting gun control. He correctly pointed out the anti gun view is held by delegates as the status quo position of the 5 million who don't testify. The laws are what protect the minority. Federal laws and the 2A is the only battle to be won in Maryland, your not going to get any gun rights here willingly.

BeoBill · Mar 26, 2015

danb said:
Let's not fight amongst ourselves.

If y'all want to know who the real enemy is: Zirkin ran unopposed... as did a lot of Democrats. That is just one example. Delegates need to fear the voters more than M&M.

Therein lies the essential truth of the matter.

BeoBill · Mar 26, 2015

TopShelf said:
Agreed. The democrats in MD seem to love the anti-gun stuff. I am not sure why...

Because that's what's coming down from the DNC. Stick to the script or there will be a challenger in the next election.

erwos · Mar 26, 2015

BeoBill said:
Therein lies the essential truth of the matter.

Disagree. The reason these guys are running unopposed is because no one believes they can mount a credible challenge... and they are probably correct. This state loves its incumbents.

danb · Mar 26, 2015

erwos said:
Disagree. The reason these guys are running unopposed is because no one believes they can mount a credible challenge... and they are probably correct. This state loves its incumbents.

Just like Anthony Brown, right?

You are right, nobody tries. When they do, they succeed beyond people's wildest dreams.

Mr H · Mar 26, 2015

danb said:
Just like Anthony Brown, right?

You are right, nobody tries. When they do and get peoples' attention and support, they succeed beyond people's wildest dreams.

Funny how it can happen.

INMY01TA · Mar 26, 2015

Schipperke said:
That is the crux of the biscuit really. If there could ever be a direct vote (informed not possible regardless) my belief it would go down in flames. When people here complain that the delegates are not honoring constituents, it is really a hollow claim. We are in a huge minority in this state. One member got it right, "noise does not mean progress". One comment long ago rings true about how there never seems to be much in person public testimony supporting gun control. He correctly pointed out the anti gun view is held by delegates as the status quo position of the 5 million who don't testify. The laws are what protect the minority. Federal laws and the 2A is the only battle to be won in Maryland, your not going to get any gun rights here willingly.

Actually the pro gun side usually out numbers the anti side at legislature hearings. When 4,000 people show for one side, and less than a hundred show for the other, voting with the less than hundred is ignoring the constituents.

DC-W · Mar 26, 2015

There were barely a handful of antis who testified in the house on the 10th and they scooted after the first bills were heard. There were none who testified in the senate on the 12th

erwos · Mar 26, 2015

danb said:
Just like Anthony Brown, right?

Anthony Brown was not our previous governor, and thus not the incumbent. Your comparison is flawed.

You are right, nobody tries. When they do, they succeed beyond people's wildest dreams.

{citation missing}

danb · Mar 26, 2015

erwos said:
Anthony Brown was not our previous governor, and thus not the incumbent. Your comparison is flawed.

{citation missing}

He was a Democrat, hand picked, and given a 100% chance of winning by 18%. Hogan was not even considered a contender until about Oct.

rem87062597 · Mar 26, 2015

INMY01TA said:
Actually the pro gun side usually out numbers the anti side at legislature hearings. When 4,000 people show for one side, and less than a hundred show for the other, voting with the less than hundred is ignoring the constituents.

It's ignoring a vocal minority of constituents and going with the opinion of a passive majority of constituents. I don't like it but we are outnumbered at the state level.

erwos · Mar 26, 2015

danb said:
He was a Democrat, hand picked, and given a 100% chance of winning by 18%. Hogan was not even considered a contender until about Oct.

Again: not the incumbent. You want to make a point about incumbents being defeated, let's at least start with incumbents.

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