Slightly different transfer question, I think

RGGjr · Aug 8, 2014

First post:

My parents purchased a Sig P239, and then decided to give it to me as a retirement gift. They brought it , legally transported it, up to Maryland from North Carolina. I was out of town at the time, so they left it inside my home and fled the People's Republic of Owe'Malleyland and returned to North Carolina. God bless them!!!

Am I doomed to a future of criminal activity (in a Maryland's Liberal's/The Gubmint's eyes) by possessing such a doomsday machine? Or (I'm HQL exempt) can I just take this thing to a MD FFL and have him/her complete the transfer?

In the "real world" how does this _really_ happen? Or does it?

Can I just "borrow" it from my parents and do nothing?

GHETTO BLASTER · Aug 9, 2014

I'm pretty sure you can borrow it as long as you want but it will need to be willed for ownership. For a transfer the owner will need to be present and it will have to be done through a MD FFL or at a state police barracks and you can't take possession until the paperwork goes through or 8 days have elapsed since the transfer paperwork is submitted.

BrewDoc_MD · Aug 9, 2014

GHETTO BLASTER said:
I'm pretty sure you can borrow it as long as you want but it will need to be willed for ownership. For a transfer the owner will need to be present and it will have to be done through a MD FFL...

Right, and that's if you can find an FFL who will do it that way. Assuming the seller is a resident of a different state, I think most FFLs prefer to received handguns through the mail directly from the FFL in the seller's state so there is a clear paper trail and established chain of custody.

gc27 said:
2. Have your parents meet you somewhere outside of maryland and give them $1. In Virgina, for example, private sales are perfectly legal and handguns are not regulated.

This VA example is only legal between two VA residents. MD allows this for unregulated long guns between two MD residents. But FTF transfers are quite illegal anywhere in the USA if the two parties are residents of different, non-adjacent states (not clear if OP is a MD resident or not). Residents of different states need to go though an appropriate FFL every time for anything not an "antique" or black powder firearm. Otherwise both parties risk federal prosecution and probably loss of gun-owning rights forever (at least). Too high a price to pay, IMHO.

Either "borrow indefinitely" until you can inherit it, or transfer it correctly.

Pinecone · Aug 9, 2014

gc27 said:
There are several things that I think you can do.
1. Take to ffl with proof of HQL exemption and have it transferred. Your parents may need to be present. (Im not sure) It is up to the FFL, but the seller does not need to be present.

2. Have your parents meet you somewhere outside of maryland and give them $1. In Virgina, for example, private sales are perfectly legal and handguns are not regulated. Plus your parents are not maryland residents. This would be a violation of Federal laws by BOTH parties. Federal law states that you can only transfer face to face, when both parties are residents of the same state. ALL firearms (long and short) are covered. Also, Federal law does not allow you to purchase a handgun outside your state of residence. Also, all interstate transferes must be done in accordance with both states laws (the buyer and the transfering FFL).

3. Give it back to them and be none the wiser. You many own it once the owner passes away without transferring or any paperwork. You STILL have to do paperwork. This would still be an interstate transfer. Also, even if both parties lived in MD, the handgun would have to be transferred via MSP from the estate to you. IIRC, there is no charge for this transfer

*I am not sure about #2 but that is what I have been told.* You were told WRONG.

Best thing is to consider it a loan. Return it to them, and have them ship it to an MD FFL. Contact the FFL and see if they will accept it from them directly, or if they will need to have an FFL from their state ship it to MD FFL.

Or, if you find an FFL that will accept it from them directly, they can take it to the FFL when they come visit again.

Pinecone · Aug 9, 2014

GHETTO BLASTER said:
I'm pretty sure you can borrow it as long as you want but it will need to be willed for ownership. For a transfer the owner will need to be present and it will have to be done through a MD FFL or at a state police barracks and you can't take possession until the paperwork goes through or 8 days have elapsed since the transfer paperwork is submitted.

Owner/seller does not have to be present to transfer through FFL. Only the buyer.

Both have to be present for MSP transfer, but that can only be better two MD residents. If the firearm crosses state lines between residents of different states, an FFL must be used.

Pinecone · Aug 9, 2014

BrewDoc_MD said:
Either "borrow indefinitely" until you can inherit it, or transfer it correctly.

Still has to be legally transferred upon inheritance.

Anotherpyr · Aug 9, 2014

gc27 said:
There are several things that I think you can do.
1. Take to ffl with proof of HQL exemption and have it transferred. Your parents may need to be present. (Im not sure)

They will need to be present. And if you're not HQL exempt and it isn't C&R you'll need an HQL.

gc27 said:
2. Have your parents meet you somewhere outside of maryland and give them $1. In Virgina, for example, private sales are perfectly legal and handguns are not regulated. Plus your parents are not maryland residents.

Congrats, you've illegally transferred a handgun. MD requires a background check on all handgun transfers. Not to mention that the Federal Brady Gun Control act was also violated,

gc27 said:
3. Give it back to them and be none the wiser. You many own it once the owner passes away without transferring or any paperwork.

In my conversations with MSP, I was told they would need a copy of the will or probate court judgement. Also, if it isn't C&R, you've got 90 days to register it due to FSA2013.

Typically the procedure is for them to go to an FFL in their state and have them mail it to an FFL in your state to do the transfer.

IANAL, but I can say your stay at a Holiday Inn Express is overdue.

RGGjr · Aug 9, 2014

Thanks all. I guess the thought of me just taking it to a FFL in Maryland myself is just crazy, right? Yet, if I read the law correctly, I could've MOVED to Maryland from North Carolina with a handgun and just done it myself within 90 days. Makes sense.....

Maybe I could mail it to a willing FFL dealer in Maryland, using their address!

cap6888 · Aug 9, 2014

RGGjr said:
Maybe I could mail it to a willing FFL dealer in Maryland, using their address!

This is what I was thinking. Couldn't you're "parents" mail the pistol to a local FFL? You go in and complete the transfer.

I don't know what paper work would be required from them t I send with it though.

GHETTO BLASTER · Aug 9, 2014

You should probably talk to your FFL and see what they are comfortable with. It seems with FSA2013 Maryland has created so many gray areas that FFL's aren't all doing things the same way, just keep in mind cutting corners could cost you your gun rights or worse.

Half-cocked · Aug 9, 2014

gc27 said:
2. Have your parents meet you somewhere outside of maryland and give them $1. In Virgina, for example, private sales are perfectly legal and handguns are not regulated. Plus your parents are not maryland residents.

*I am not sure about #2 but that is what I have been told.*

The person who told you #2 should be dropped into a cage of hungry dingos with a pork chop tied around his neck. That is the single worst piece of advice I've ever heard, and is a good way to end up in Club Fed.

Pinecone · Aug 9, 2014

Anotherpyr said:
They will need to be present. And if you're not HQL exempt and it isn't C&R you'll need an HQL. They do NOT need to be present, if the FFL will accept the firearm. But if you walk in with it to transfer to yourself, I doubt many FFLs will take that one.

Congrats, you've illegally transferred a handgun. MD requires a background check on all handgun transfers. Not to mention that the Federal Brady Gun Control act was also violated, Also the Gun Control Act of 1968 which banned the purchase of a handgun outside the state of the buyers residence. Brady Act only requires background checks on firearms sold by an FFL, not face to face

In my conversations with MSP, I was told they would need a copy of the will or probate court judgement. Since you have to go through an FFL from out of state, that would not be required. If in State, the MSP requires those documents to transfer from an Estate versus an individual.Also, if it isn't C&R, you've got 90 days to register it due to FSA2013. Only if you move to MD. To transfer to an MD resident from out of state, it MUST go through an FFL, which automatically "voluntarily registers" the pistol.

Typically the procedure is for them to go to an FFL in their state and have them mail it to an FFL in your state to do the transfer. Only required if the MD FFL requires that the firearm only be shipped to them by an FFL. Not all FFLs require this. It is legal for an individual to ship a handgun to an FFL directly.

IANAL, but I can say your stay at a Holiday Inn Express is overdue.

Some other info

Pinecone · Aug 9, 2014

RGGjr said:
Thanks all. I guess the thought of me just taking it to a FFL in Maryland myself is just crazy, right? Yet, if I read the law correctly, I could've MOVED to Maryland from North Carolina with a handgun and just done it myself within 90 days. Makes sense.....

Maybe I could mail it to a willing FFL dealer in Maryland, using their address!

Only if you moved here after Oct 1, 2013. If you moved to MD before that date, no registration is/was required.

RGGjr · Aug 9, 2014

Unfortunately, Pinecone, I've been a native Murlinder all my life. As much as I'd like to "pull a Beretta" and get out of town, my wife isn't willing to cut the cord as of yet. But there's hope!

I have to say I'm a bit jealous that all my Old Man needs to do in NC to purchase a handgun is show his CCW card, and out the door, with handgun, he goes!

I emailed a couple off FFL folks that are in the area. I figure I'd might as well see what they're willing to do for me, or what advice they can offer.

RGGjr · Aug 9, 2014

I emailed a couple of local FFL folks. I figure I'd be better off seeing what they can do for me, or at least give me some advice.

All my old man has to do in NC to buy a handgun and walk out the door with it immediately is show that he has a CCW card. I'm jealous!

Rack&Roll · Aug 9, 2014

gc27 said:
There are several things that I think you can do.
1. Take to ffl with proof of HQL exemption and have it transferred. Your parents may need to be present. (Im not sure)
2. Have your parents meet you somewhere outside of maryland and give them $1. In Virgina, for example, private sales are perfectly legal and handguns are not regulated. Plus your parents are not maryland residents.
3. Give it back to them and be none the wiser. You many own it once the owner passes away without transferring or any paperwork.

*I am not sure about #2 but that is what I have been told.*

You are welcome to post your opinions, but you are obviously not qualfied to give legal advice regarding firearms. You could have put someone in jail.

You joined this week, correct? Great info available on this forum, unless you are too busy posting guesses on crucial legal topics.

Pinecone · Aug 9, 2014

RGGjr said:
I emailed a couple of local FFL folks. I figure I'd be better off seeing what they can do for me, or at least give me some advice.

All my old man has to do in NC to buy a handgun and walk out the door with it immediately is show that he has a CCW card. I'm jealous!

Remember, until that time it has just been loaned to you.

Streetgang · Aug 9, 2014

This is a perfect example of why internet advice is not of any use. OP if you followed #2 COA in this post, as previously stated you could be in for free room and board at your local prison.

Folks, If you do not know what you are talking about...
Don't give advice!

It's pretty obvious you posted just because you think you know the answer.

You are truly not sure.

gc27 said:
There are several things that I think you can do.
1. Take to ffl with proof of HQL exemption and have it transferred. Your parents may need to be present. (Im not sure)
2. Have your parents meet you somewhere outside of maryland and give them $1. In Virgina, for example, private sales are perfectly legal and handguns are not regulated. Plus your parents are not maryland residents.
3. Give it back to them and be none the wiser. You many own it once the owner passes away without transferring or any paperwork.

*I am not sure about #2 but that is what I have been told.*

RGGjr · Aug 9, 2014

Exactly. I got a positive hit from a FFL today. I'll jump through the hoops if needed.

You know. I actually OBEY the law!

gc27 · Aug 9, 2014

I am sorry for my original post. I have just moved to maryland from montana 12 days ago and i am nowhere near briefed on al of these crazy laws. That is why I have decided to leave all of my firearms with my brother until I am positive what i need to do to legally bring them here.

Thank you all for correcting me and pointing out my incredibly false thoughts.

Slightly different transfer question, I think

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