has anyone defended themselves with a knife?

rummy said:

never had to draw, thankfully. had a situation years ago where i could have, but i was too busy trying to keep him off balance and didnt even remember that i had a knife.

this may be an option if you want to carry a concealed "fixed" blade, but dont want to fun afoul of the law.

I would highly recommend getting a couple of video from james keating - he is pretty much the go to guy for folder self defense.

i took a sayoc kali on weekends a few years back - the targeting and attack cycles were impressive to say the least and i would also recommend learning them just as a baseline reference. there is something to be said about the "singer sewing machine" style of knife usage, but a little bio-mechanical and vascular targeting skills would be good to know.

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What brand knife is that?

dogboy said:

Thanks CB51. I somewhat suspected it might be some sort of stick or club you would prefer, but wanted to get the full input from you. I appreciate it.

When you say "training in sticks," to what type of training are you referring? Stick fighting? One of the So. American or Pacific island type arts? Or are you just talking about the typical stick manipulation as is taught in various Asian martial arts (Karate, Tae Kwon Do, etc.)? I actually have some rudimentary "training," if you could call it that, in bo staff. And even before that, I have been carrying a cane-length of the old Whistle brand (?) hickory walking stick in my Jeep, for if I need to stop somewhere that I don't like. Plus, I DO actually have a documented bad knee that sometimes "acts up," and at least once I actually needed that stick because I broke my toe while sparring and could barely put weight on it to get home.

Also have a couple more improvised impact-type tools in the Jeep that could make nasty surprises.

So I've kinda got the stick "acquisition" taken care of. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on actual training, though.

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For training, all of the above are good!
No really, some kind of dedicated stick training, no matter if the Southern Pacific or asian, or good old U.S. army pupil stick training where I started off, are all good to get a feel for the stick as a weapon. We got both the basic pupil stick training, plus riot stick training in the army. But my real dedicated stick initiation was at Walter Reed Army hospital where I was sent for rehab after a serious injury to my right foot and ankle.

I was not the best patient, being 24 years old and having the doc's tel me I was not only going to be medically discharged, and totally screw up my plans of going for the twenty and a career in the army, but was extremely resentful over being told I was probably going to be on a cane for the rest of my life. I was showing my backside being a resentful patient, not really putting it all into the rehab.

One day, my head doctor comes in with some Kendo gear, and told me since I was going to be on a cane, I may as well learn to use it for something other than leaning on. Captain Tanaka was a Japanese American guy from California, and was a kendo enthusiast. He was loosing patience with me, and I think he intended to make me mad enough to forget about my foot and put some weight on it. He did. After some informal lessons he banged me around one afternoon enough to make me mad enough that I was trying to take his head off. That man got me to walk almost normal again, as well as learning how to really use a stick. I'll always owe him big time.

That experience plus seeing real knife fight that time at Ft. Leonard Wood, was enough for me. No knives in a fight. When they have to bring in a water truck to hose down the pavement from the blood, I ain't going there.

Any of the martial arts where you learn stick techniques are good. It will keep the knife away from you, as well as maybe breaking an arm or wrist of the attacker. Nobody is going to hurt you with a knife if you just break up the hand that's wielding it.

edit to add- The real thing about a stick, it can be anything. A flashlight, a wooden rung kicked/stomped out of the bottom of a chair, lean a broomstick against the wall and stomp it and you have a stick. Out in the woods, you can use a pocket knife to cut down and make a good stick in a few minutes from a small sapling. Even a light stick the length of your forearm used with snap strikes, can inflict real damage while keeping an attacker with knife at a distance.

cb51 said:

For training, all of the above are good!...

...


edit to add- The real thing about a stick, it can be anything. A flashlight, a wooden rung kicked/stomped out of the bottom of a chair, lean a broomstick against the wall and stomp it and you have a stick. Out in the woods, you can use a pocket knife to cut down and make a good stick in a few minutes from a small sapling. Even a light stick the length of your forearm used with snap strikes, can inflict real damage while keeping an attacker with knife at a distance.

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Roger all. I'll be continuing the training I'm doing right now anyway, and probably picking up some more. Have moved from bo staff to sword for now, but that is with a wooden sword, which really some of the techniques we're learning could be applicable to stick strikes, I think. Definitely is getting your head into the game on blocking incoming attacks.

dogboy said:

Roger all. I'll be continuing the training I'm doing right now anyway, and probably picking up some more. Have moved from bo staff to sword for now, but that is with a wooden sword, which really some of the techniques we're learning could be applicable to stick strikes, I think. Definitely is getting your head into the game on blocking incoming attacks.

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It all translates into defense with a stick perfectly. The sword techniques with a walking stick are used just like a sword on an attacker, and the bo techniques translate smoothly to use with a hiking or heavy duty walking stick. You're gonna be good to go!

Best thing is, there's plenty of places to spar and practice stick techniques either Kendo or Bo staff, while knife fighting is not that wide spread, although for a reason.

I won't go into details, but I have needed, and used my knives as defensive weapons on several occasions. I have some scars to prove it. I carry because I can, and because knives are useful tools. I can't remember the last time I went a full at without using a knife. If my knife happens to save my life occasionally, that's great too.

HazyDayz said:

I won't go into details, but I have needed, and used my knives as defensive weapons on several occasions. I have some scars to prove it. I carry because I can, and because knives are useful tools. I can't remember the last time I went a full at without using a knife. If my knife happens to save my life occasionally, that's great too.

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Maybe if you'd have used a stick instead of a knife, you would have a lot less of those scars?

Use what you've got. I'd much prefer a baton or stick in the absence of a firearm. And I've used a camera monopod for defense before. Work good.

cb51 said:

Maybe if you'd have used a stick instead of a knife, you would have a lot less of those scars?

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Then he would have to walk softly.

Second Amendment said:

Then he would have to walk softly.

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Yeah, but then he gets to carry a big stick!

Second Amendment said:

What brand knife is that?

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Looks like a ZT to me.

mr phil said:

I would much rather CUT than BE CUT.
Never had too and hope that I never do.
But God help the idiot that makes me use it.

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Same answer here...

I'm always packing a knife...

When I'm forced to fight, somebody's else is going to get hurt...

Ill be honest and take it for what its worth. In KNIFE fight/assault/homicide, almost every weapon of choice that proved life threatening or caused serious damage is the almighty one dollar box cutter. The assailants I am just guessing have no real knife training . I dont know the story usually behind exactly what happened but get the gist and treat the aftermath. Just some food food for thought.

Tconfo said:

Ill be honest and take it for what its worth. In KNIFE fight/assault/homicide, almost every weapon of choice that proved life threatening or caused serious damage is the almighty one dollar box cutter. The assailants I am just guessing have no real knife training . I dont know the story usually behind exactly what happened but get the gist and treat the aftermath. Just some food food for thought.

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This because of a couple of factors. One, criminals are cheap. They are looking for a weapon of intimidation that they can ditch or toss down the next sewer with no loss. More street muggings are done with a throw away knife than firearms. Two, the box cutter is a very effective weapon. It's sharp, cuts great, goes right through shirts and jackets slicing the flesh and tendons and blood vessels under with very little effort.

Three, it takes very little training and technique to slash the ever lovin' crappola out of someone. Pretty much anything getting in the way of a box cutter or Stanley utility knife from Home Depot is getting cut good. Or bad, deepening on how you look at it.

This is what makes the whole idea of a knife as a defensive weapon ludicrous. The low life criminal goes to mug or assault you, and you pull your mighty super ninja death dealing tactical knife to defend yourself, and now you're in a knife fight with some meth head moron who may not give a damm about his own self because he's too screwed up to know better or even care.

So now, your playing Jim Bowie with a nut case who's slashing away at you with some dollar store box cutter with a brand new blade in it, and while you may get him with your Spyderco or Benchmade high dollar cult worship knife, he's gonna slice you good multiple times before he goes down because knife wounds don't have the instant effect blunt force truma wounds do. A good shot to a vital organ with a gun, or a good blow to the wrist or hand with a club of some sort, will stop a fight pretty quick. Some good cuts can take several minutes for the blood pressure to drop enough for the idiot to pass out. Her's going to do a lot of damage in a minute or two before he drops.

Knives are fun to collect, and dressing out that deer or cleaning that Rockfish can be hard without one. You sure can't whittle or do bushcraft without one. But for a defense item, it's Hollywood style stupid. Carry a nice spray can of Fox or Sabre pepper spray, and use the whole can if you have to, then retreat in haste. May not be walter mitty macho, but you'll live longer or deal with way less rehab after the surgeries to repair those cut tendons and muscle tissue. Or carry a collapsable baton, cane, stick of some kind, and keep the cutting edge away from you. Unlike guns, a knife can't hurt you if the edge can't make contact with you. That means keeping it at a distance. Any stick will work, even a piece of broomstick about the length of your forearm. But closing up to contact range with some 3 or 4 inch folding knife is just plain insane.

Interesting thread. I studied martial arts for quite a few years and was appalled at my knowledge and experience in dealing with, or using, a knife when I finally got an instructor who was skilled with a knife...subtle, fast and scary. This is my daily carry for the past couple years. It's been discontinued for a while.

http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_lgshot.asp?sku=pd518

This is a very interesting article, "Lies About Knife Fighting", with a lot of good information to take to heart.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

Enjoy.

DanGuy48 said:

This is a very interesting article, "Lies About Knife Fighting", with a lot of good information to take to heart.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html

Enjoy.

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Dan, thank you for posting that article by Marc. MOre people who are under the delusion that they can use a knife for defense, should read that article.

When I was a kid, we were in Montgomery Mall and one of my friends got into an argument with another kid of another group. My friend was much bigger and older than this little shrimp, yet the shrimp said let's go outside. Both of our groups followed, so it was 4 of us and about 5 of them. They stood toe to toe....more like chest to chest, it was that close....the other kid looked like a midget....I'm like, no way, this kid really has some serious balls. Then all of the sudden, he pulls out a bigass Rambo survival knife and held it towards my friend's sternum. It was probably $5 but it looked scary as hell and my friend jumped back and yelled that's ********. The mood was more comical than anything as the other group of kids busted out laughing because they knew what their little friend had. I picked up a piece of metal pipe and started doing some ******** Kung-Fu twirling moves that I saw in the movies and the kid with the knife just pretended that he didn't see me and they all walked back inside like they won. There was a security guard, hiding in the shadows but he didn't do anything as he just wanted to see a fight first before calling the cops. The guard gave us a little smirk....like we were all p.ssies, which was true. And it was all pretty funny.

Afterward, every time I bring this story up to my friend, I always begin it with...."remember that time I saved your life at Montgomery Mall when that kid pulled a knife on you....?"

Twice. Once in parking lot of Shepherds Park on DC line. once the other day on way to work. The latter never saw the knife. He took a look at me and decided to get back in his car and go on to work. Neither time did I have to use it.

Only once, and never, ever want to do it again.
1970, Nam, about 50 clicks above the DMZ. I was PJ on the ground, had 2 beat up F4 jockeys nearly packaged when VC showed up. Door gunner got who knows how many, but 8-10 got past him. Two 1911s expended, third 1911 stovepiped, and 3 of the buggers were still coming hot. Out of options. This is the Ka Bar that saved three lives that day.

Wow. Thank you for service. PJ's are some bad ass dudes.