because no one except a lawyer can properly defend them self in the courtroom.
Criminal Defense Attorney
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because no one except a lawyer can properly defend them self in the courtroom.
- May 5, 2010
- 6,588
Pray that this guy does not serve on your jury!
fivepointstar
Thank you MD-Goodbye
OK...I've been watching this thread for a few days and I just have to chime in and come in the defense of Criminal Defense Attorneys. Of all the MDS members on this forum, you're probably wondering why someone like me would defend their career and defend the necessity of defense attorneies and public defenders.
Many moons ago, I was one of those in your shoes when I considered these lawyers to be the bottom of the barrel. I wouldn't piss on one of them even if they were on fire but one thing changed my mind. When I was in college, I took Constitutional Law and the professor was a Defense Attorney. I was like....ew! But as the class went on and on and I learned a great deal about this beautiful document called The Constitution, I saw the need and understood why someone would be a defense attorney.....Because of Principle.
Ladies and Gentleman, if it wasn't for these men and women the government would walk all over The People. The goverenment official like, The POTUS, the attorney General, Federal Law Enforcement, individual governors, State Law enforcement and Local Police will have the power to trample your Constitutional Right without fear of Punishment or consequence.
Guess who is defending and protecting you from police from Violating your 4th Amendment Rights? Guess who is protecting you from the police from going beyond their authority and beating a confession out of you and your 5th Amendment Rights. Guess who is defending your 14A rights of Due Process under the law... Criminal Defense Lawyers.
Courts have what they call "the Exclusionary Rule" and Suppression Hearing to suppress evidence. If evidence is illegally obtained and done by violating your Constitutional Rights, that evidence which is obtained are what they call "Fruits of the Poison Tree" or for our terms evidence that is inadmissiable and thrown out of court. NO evidence equals no conviction. Furthermore, violations can lead to Civil Lawsuits as well.
To this day, I can't stand Johnny Cochran but I understand in principal why "We The People" need defense lawyers. I have a good friend that's a public defender and I'm a cop....we both have a job to do to uphold the Constitution.
Many moons ago, I was one of those in your shoes when I considered these lawyers to be the bottom of the barrel. I wouldn't piss on one of them even if they were on fire but one thing changed my mind. When I was in college, I took Constitutional Law and the professor was a Defense Attorney. I was like....ew! But as the class went on and on and I learned a great deal about this beautiful document called The Constitution, I saw the need and understood why someone would be a defense attorney.....Because of Principle.
Ladies and Gentleman, if it wasn't for these men and women the government would walk all over The People. The goverenment official like, The POTUS, the attorney General, Federal Law Enforcement, individual governors, State Law enforcement and Local Police will have the power to trample your Constitutional Right without fear of Punishment or consequence.
Guess who is defending and protecting you from police from Violating your 4th Amendment Rights? Guess who is protecting you from the police from going beyond their authority and beating a confession out of you and your 5th Amendment Rights. Guess who is defending your 14A rights of Due Process under the law... Criminal Defense Lawyers.
Courts have what they call "the Exclusionary Rule" and Suppression Hearing to suppress evidence. If evidence is illegally obtained and done by violating your Constitutional Rights, that evidence which is obtained are what they call "Fruits of the Poison Tree" or for our terms evidence that is inadmissiable and thrown out of court. NO evidence equals no conviction. Furthermore, violations can lead to Civil Lawsuits as well.
To this day, I can't stand Johnny Cochran but I understand in principal why "We The People" need defense lawyers. I have a good friend that's a public defender and I'm a cop....we both have a job to do to uphold the Constitution.
Most lawyers would recommend NOT self representing. It's hard to be objective - or something like that.
- Jan 30, 2013
- 34,052
Well put. For a good read and perspective on this, even though written in the '80's, check out "The Best Defense," by Alan Dershowitz. http://www.amazon.com/The-Best-Defense-Alan-Dershowitz/dp/039471380X
Multifaceted
Jerk of all Trades
I thought the title read Critical Defense Attorney 
Tebonski
Active Member
I went to criminal and civil courts for 20 years and can honestly say that most people charged were guilty. Criminal defense lawyers help the guilty avoid their just deserts. Please spare me all the who am I to decide who is guilty and who isn't, am I judge jury and executioner blah blah blah. When criminals daily rape and murder and rob and still walk free it's because of weakling judges, idiot juries and fine upstanding ethical egotistical defense attorneys who care more about money and ego than justice. And if this post offends anyone revoke my posting privilege.
- May 22, 2005
- 122,879
That all sounds well and good until you're the nail waiting to be hammered by the weight of the government's machine.
The rights of the individual far outweigh the rights of the state and the evidentiary burden should always rest on the prosecution, hence innocent until proven guilty.
Without the protections of due process, which attorneys provide, the state could do anything to anyone at any time for any reason.
I don't want to live in a world where there is no balance to the government's power, and neither should you.
Anne Colt Leitess
fivepointstar
Thank you MD-Goodbye
LOL!!!
that's one of the txt books we used in class. OUTSTANDING read and Dershowitz is a genious!!!!
thanks for bring that up!
BeerHunter
Don't ReMember
Funniest retort to precisely illustrate the counter-point I've read in a long time! Well done, CF! 
- Jan 30, 2013
- 34,052
Dershowitz is one liberal who I can sometimes agree with. Whether you agree with him or not on a given issue, he's a genuine intellect in an era where they are few and far between.
P.S. He thinks the Zimmerman prosecutor should be disbarred, and that the Perry prosecution is "the politicization of party differences." http://www.abajournal.com/news/arti...nt_is_an_example_of_criminalization_of_party/
Dershowitz is a liberal whose intellect tempers his emotions.
Tebonski
Active Member
The chances of a truly innocent person just minding his own business being pulled up by a cop, framed and arrested are about as remote as someone winning the powerball jackpot. I especially love all these so called experts who studied law their entire adult lives then pontificate to worshiping dreamy eyed law school students. What's the old saying? Those that can do and those that can't teach.
You want a better society abolish parole, Miranda and the exclusionary rule. All three by their very nature only protect CRIMINALS!
Let's make criminal defense attorneys and judges who assist felons in avoiding prison go to jail upon that felons next inevitable felony arrest.
Wonderful system we have here. Visit a local law library, tons of law books and an unjust society where criminals rule the streets and congress.
You want a better society abolish parole, Miranda and the exclusionary rule. All three by their very nature only protect CRIMINALS!
Let's make criminal defense attorneys and judges who assist felons in avoiding prison go to jail upon that felons next inevitable felony arrest.
Wonderful system we have here. Visit a local law library, tons of law books and an unjust society where criminals rule the streets and congress.
Name Taken
Ultimate Member
So now we are blaming Miranda although according to many studies it has had a minimal affect on police work, confessions, and convictions?
Exclusionary rule? Come on guy.
Both of your examples are non issues if the police, witnesses, states attorneys, and judges do their job. Most good states attorneys don't have issues getting evidence in.
I sure hope you aren't patrolling the means streets. If you are you'd be better served reading up on some of these issues. You'll likely gain a new respect for them and how they helped shape and professional most of law enforcement.
rdc
Ultimate Member
So recently The guy who shot a guy forcing his way into his house in glen burnie shouldn't have been mirandized? He shouldn't have been presumed innocent? Hell if you are ever picked up for anything you'll be fine with not being "innocent till proven guilty" right? Yes lots of criminals walk free but are you OK with innocents serving time?
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Touche!
That being said I wouldn't shed a tear if the entire OJ team and the pos that defended the "mother" in Fl that murdered her own child.
fivepointstar
Thank you MD-Goodbye
I for one do not want to institute a Police State. BUT....I also don't want to pussify the police. All this talk about demilitarization of the police is absolute ********!! Do you think we really want to strap on armor and beat the crap out of the people. If so you've got one f*cked up mind!
The trend of militarization of police is a response to current trends in society. The problem is the police are TOO REACTIVE and not PROACTIVE!!! Its incidents like Columbine that change police tactics to what we now know as "Active Shooter Response." HELLO.....that's a military response where at one time police were told to set up a perimeter and wait for SWAT. NOW....police are equipped with patrol rifles (AR15, Mini14, etc) so they are equipped to face the threats they now have to face.
You can say....it will never happen here but just last year we had an active shooter at Columbia Mall. Do you really wanna take patrol rifles away? One day it could be you in your local mall or its your child in active shooter in his school.
We need prosecutors, we need criminal defense and we need patrol rifles and we need armored tactical vehicles to protect the trooper on the front line.
The trend of militarization of police is a response to current trends in society. The problem is the police are TOO REACTIVE and not PROACTIVE!!! Its incidents like Columbine that change police tactics to what we now know as "Active Shooter Response." HELLO.....that's a military response where at one time police were told to set up a perimeter and wait for SWAT. NOW....police are equipped with patrol rifles (AR15, Mini14, etc) so they are equipped to face the threats they now have to face.
You can say....it will never happen here but just last year we had an active shooter at Columbia Mall. Do you really wanna take patrol rifles away? One day it could be you in your local mall or its your child in active shooter in his school.
We need prosecutors, we need criminal defense and we need patrol rifles and we need armored tactical vehicles to protect the trooper on the front line.
Tebonski
Active Member
If those things are meaningless why enforce them? Miranda, can a cop force you to rat on yourself?Just keep your mouth shut, Miranda or no Miranda, only an idiot who broke a law would try to talk their way out of it. The biggest problem is parole, letting violent felons out to go back and rape, murder, pillage again and again and for every 10 felonies they commit they might get arrested once. Are you for parole? Just to be fair to felons so they can rehabilitate and become useful member of society again like OJ did?
- Jan 30, 2013
- 34,052
We need police who are out and about in their communities, daily, in uniform, interacting with and being a part of their communities. Standing in line with us at the C-Store, hanging on the corner and in the park, and everywhere else where we work, travel, commute, and play. Not overwhelming, but integrated.
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