Comm2A Challenges MA restrictions on LTCs (new carry case)

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  • Maestro Pistolero

    Active Member
    Mar 20, 2012
    876
    Good catch. Mass' reply is due this week.
    This case is a lot like the ones in CA. Many Mass towns do issue LTC A (full carry) to regular folk, and Comm2A is challenging only the chiefs issuance policy, not that of state law.
    Mass IS intervening in this case and is trying to take the hard line that the 2A is restricted to the home.
    Good. That's precisely the sort of overreach that I believe will work in our favor in the end . . . restricting a home-bound right to a primarily outdoor activity.

    I guess the amendment was written to protect indoor militias.:roll eyes:
     
    Last edited:

    Knuckle Dragger

    Active Member
    May 7, 2012
    213
    Good catch. Mass' reply is due this week.
    This case is a lot like the ones in CA. Many Mass towns do issue LTC A (full carry) to regular folk, and Comm2A is challenging only the chiefs issuance policy, not that of state law.
    Mass IS intervening in this case and is trying to take the hard line that the 2A is restricted to the home.
    They kind of have to back off from that position. In Wesson v. Fowler the plaintiffs argued that the core right includes maintaining proficiency, an argument that the court accepted. In the hearing the judge observed that the right to keep a firearm in the home didn't make much sense if you didn't also have the right to take it somewhere and shoot it.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,916
    WV
    State's supplemental briefing is in, they are asking for Pullman abstention by sending this to Massachussetts state court to examine the towns' policies.

    Hearing set for 5/30 on the supplemental briefings.
     

    Attachments

    • gov.uscourts.mad.149330.78.0.pdf
      101.7 KB · Views: 207

    ryan_j

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 6, 2013
    2,264
    So they gave him the permit to moot the case? That's exactly what they did to Jeff muller in NJ.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,916
    WV
    So they gave him the permit to moot the case? That's exactly what they did to Jeff muller in NJ.

    Maybe to moot himself out of the case (he wasn't the one who initially denied the unrestricted license). There are 5 or 6 total plaintiffs covering several localities, so the case will continue, unless the other chiefs plan to do the same.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,916
    WV
    http://ia801602.us.archive.org/28/items/gov.uscourts.mad.149330/gov.uscourts.mad.149330.docket.html

    Two recent entries:

    MOTION to Dismiss On The Ground That There Is No Longer A Case Or Controversy Between The Parties by Richard C. Grimes.(Simms, Adam) (Entered: 06/15/2015)
    2015-06-15 109 0 MEMORANDUM in Support re 108 MOTION to Dismiss On The Ground That There Is No Longer A Case Or Controversy Between The Parties filed by Richard C. Grimes. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A, # 2 Exhibit B)(Simms, Adam) (Entered: 06/15/2015)

    There's no link (maybe with Pacer access someone can get it), but this leads me to believe all parties were issued LTCs?
     

    Knuckle Dragger

    Active Member
    May 7, 2012
    213
    http://ia801602.us.archive.org/28/items/gov.uscourts.mad.149330/gov.uscourts.mad.149330.docket.html

    Two recent entries:

    MOTION to Dismiss On The Ground That There Is No Longer A Case Or Controversy Between The Parties by Richard C. Grimes.(Simms, Adam) (Entered: 06/15/2015)
    2015-06-15 109 0 MEMORANDUM in Support re 108 MOTION to Dismiss On The Ground That There Is No Longer A Case Or Controversy Between The Parties filed by Richard C. Grimes. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A, # 2 Exhibit B)(Simms, Adam) (Entered: 06/15/2015)

    There's no link (maybe with Pacer access someone can get it), but this leads me to believe all parties were issued LTCs?
    That's correct. But not only that, both defendant towns appear to have changed their licensing policies and now issue unrestricted licenses as a default.

    Batty v. Albertelli takes up the issue naming three new towns as defendants. Hopefully these towns will put up a little bigger fight.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,916
    WV
    That's correct. But not only that, both defendant towns appear to have changed their licensing policies and now issue unrestricted licenses as a default.

    Batty v. Albertelli takes up the issue naming three new towns as defendants. Hopefully these towns will put up a little bigger fight.

    Good for the plaintiffs, but will this new case involve a town that flat out won't issue LTC-As?

    Found the internet archive, reading now: http://ia802601.us.archive.org/23/items/gov.uscourts.mad.167268/gov.uscourts.mad.167268.docket.html
     

    Knuckle Dragger

    Active Member
    May 7, 2012
    213
    Good for the plaintiffs, but will this new case involve a town that flat out won't issue LTC-As?

    Found the internet archive, reading now: http://ia802601.us.archive.org/23/items/gov.uscourts.mad.167268/gov.uscourts.mad.167268.docket.html

    We don't know in advance which towns will fight and which will not. We really expect that the Davis defendants would dig in their heels and they didn't. We're hoping that at least a couple of the Batty plaintiffs are committed to their policies, but that has yet to be seen.

    A police chief's licensing policy usually goes unnoticed by the town management until their either get sued like this (And Comm2A has brought the first suits ever of this type) or the town selectmens' phones start ringing off the hook.

    Once the legal bills start coming in or the torch-and-pitchfork crowd start going after a town's elected officials, the chiefs have a hard time sticking to their 'guns' on this issue.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,916
    WV
    We don't know in advance which towns will fight and which will not. We really expect that the Davis defendants would dig in their heels and they didn't. We're hoping that at least a couple of the Batty plaintiffs are committed to their policies, but that has yet to be seen.

    A police chief's licensing policy usually goes unnoticed by the town management until their either get sued like this (And Comm2A has brought the first suits ever of this type) or the town selectmens' phones start ringing off the hook.

    Once the legal bills start coming in or the torch-and-pitchfork crowd start going after a town's elected officials, the chiefs have a hard time sticking to their 'guns' on this issue.

    What's Boston's policy like?
     

    Knuckle Dragger

    Active Member
    May 7, 2012
    213
    What's Boston's policy like?
    Boston is interesting and is far from the worst licensing authority in Massachusetts. They tend to be more by the book (although it's their book) and consistent. They issue restricted licences (required to even possess a firearm) to almost all qualified applicants, so they don't play that game anymore. Issuing of unrestricted licenses (necessary in order to carry) is still based upon perceived need.

    Attorneys, doctors, business owners, firearms instructors, etc. generally get unrestricted licenses if they request them and once you're inside the tent you're good to go going forward. They're willing to consider any reason that, if uniformly applied, will not result in the general public being able to qualify for a carry license.

    I live in Boston and have an unrestricted license. Once I was able to fit inside their 'box' it was pretty easy and I don't have to re-justify myself upon renewal.

    For the state as a whole, 91%+ of licences issued are unrestricted. There are just a handful of towns that routinely issue restricted licenses. This puts us in rather a unique situation. Massachusetts residents have a harder time than residents of any other state in being able to just own a firearm. But, once that hurdle is is breached, we're wide-open for carry. Almost all licenses are unrestricted and we have very few restrictions on carrying in public places.
     

    jrosenberger

    Active Member
    Jan 19, 2011
    332
    NH
    Good for the plaintiffs, but will this new case involve a town that flat out won't issue LTC-As?

    Found the internet archive, reading now: http://ia802601.us.archive.org/23/items/gov.uscourts.mad.167268/gov.uscourts.mad.167268.docket.html

    I don't think there are any towns left that don't issue at least restricted LTC-A (own but not carry) to at least all applicants with squeaky clean records. There are a few towns that view licensing as a scavenger hunt for an excuse to hang a denial on, but it'll be interesting to see how that goes now that the process changed in January.

    For more than you ever wanted to know about licensing by MA town, take a look here: http://comm2a.org/index.php/resources

    There aren't many towns left that issue unrestricted to only to the fully connected. The defendants in Batty are some of them.
     

    press1280

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2010
    7,916
    WV

    Knuckle Dragger

    Active Member
    May 7, 2012
    213

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