Help with powder coating issue

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  • toolness1

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 5, 2014
    2,723
    BFE, Missouri
    Hello, I have been casting and powder coating bullets for just a couple weeks now. I have had a lot of success, already finding accurate loads for cast/powder coated 9mm, 9x18, 8x56R, and 8mm Mauser.

    The biggest issue I have had is this: some of my bullets come out of the oven after baking and look like they melted and sag down into the screen I bake them on. The strange thing is, I usually only bake up to 350-375 DegF or so, for about 20 min. My screen is a "tray" I made out of 1/4'' mechanic's cloth.

    On this last batch of 9mm, I had 15 that came out like the ones in the picture, flattened/melted. The other 68 that were on the same screen, in the same batch, in the same oven, came out perfect.

    How come some, seemingly randomly, are melting like this?

    I can live with this issue, as most come out fine and I'll just melt the bad ones down and re-cast, but it's bugging me because I can't figure out why it's happening.

    I do have a thermometer in my toaster oven I use. I monitor the temp through the 20 min bake time to see if it's spiking, and it doesn't seem to be. The positioning on the screen/in the oven doesn't seem to matter as far as which ones melt.

    I'm using red Harbor Freight powder coat, and dry tumbling them in a tupperware with copper plated BB's, which I place in my Lyman tumbler for about 20 min.

    Thanks for any help/comments!
     

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    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Unless there is something wrong with the oven, it should not get that hot.

    Most of the bullet alloys melt in the 450 - 480 range.
     

    BigDaddy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 7, 2014
    2,235
    Are they all from the same batch of lead? If not, one batch might have a higher antimony content than the other.

    Scroll to the bottom of this page and you will see a chart that shows the melting point for lead and the melting point for antimony.

    http://www.lasc.us/heattreat.htm

    Neither lead, antimony nor tin actually melt at less than 449 F in that chart only Solder. Clearly they are getting soft. If the OP is correct about the temp being 350-375 then he has defined the point where that happens. Perhaps the need for powder coating should be re-examined.
    There may well be inconsistent temps within the toaster oven. The pics look like little pieces of tootsie rolls that were placed on a rack. Chocolate is probably a better way to think of it than an ice cube, which doesn't exist in a maleable state.
     

    toolness1

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 5, 2014
    2,723
    BFE, Missouri
    I was watching my thermometer the other day and noticed that it is REALLY slow to react
    So I am now thinking I'm getting temp spikes that I didn't know I was having due to the slow thermometer.

    These are all made from the same batch of lead which is wheel weight alloy.

    I am going to try shooting for a lower temp, then test the coating with solvent after I bake it to verify its getting baked enough to properly cure.

    If I am unable to to that, I will get a better oven.

    Thanks for the help!

    I love powder coating. It is working perfectly, I am getting great accuracy and no leading. I don't see myself ever using traditional lube when I can just coat them and use Lee type push through sizers.



    Sent from my XT901 using Tapatalk
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    If the powder turns shiny, that is enough. It only needs to melt, not be baked for curing.
     

    Roadhawg

    Bee Farmer
    Jul 18, 2014
    622
    Free America
    Depending on the Tin/Lead alloy it has different melting characteristics. The tin/lead alloy does not go directly from a liquid to a solid or solid to a liquid. It has a transition called a plastic state. There is only one tin/lead alloy 63/37 which transitions from liquid to a solid with no plastic state, this is called eutectic. That alloy is used for electronic soldering and has a melting point of 361F. Here is a chart that shows the correlation of temperature and alloy reaction. This happens to be my first post on the boards, besides the quick intro.
    leadalloys_zps44e65abb.jpg
     

    BigDaddy

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 7, 2014
    2,235
    Nice graft Roadhawg and better than my tootsie roll analogy.
    Welcome to the forum.
     

    toolness1

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 5, 2014
    2,723
    BFE, Missouri
    Depending on the Tin/Lead alloy it has different melting characteristics. The tin/lead alloy does not go directly from a liquid to a solid or solid to a liquid. It has a transition called a plastic state. There is only one tin/lead alloy 63/37 which transitions from liquid to a solid with no plastic state, this is called eutectic. That alloy is used for electronic soldering and has a melting point of 361F. Here is a chart that shows the correlation of temperature and alloy reaction. This happens to be my first post on the boards, besides the quick intro.
    leadalloys_zps44e65abb.jpg

    Welcome!

    That's interesting about the different states, thanks.

    I notice in my toaster oven the heating elements turn on and off a ton, even while it's heating up and the thermometer only shows about 150 degrees or so, so that tells me that the temperature in this little oven isn't steady at all. BUT, I have messed with the temperatures and have had batches come out nicely, so I don't think I'll need a new oven yet.

    I think if I set it to 350 (which was only giving me about a 300-325 avg temp on the thermometer) it will work. I had been setting it to about 425, which was showing 350-375 on the thermometer, but probably spiking up over 450 at times.

    I might seek a bigger oven one of these days, so I can do larger batches.
     

    toolness1

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 5, 2014
    2,723
    BFE, Missouri
    If the powder turns shiny, that is enough. It only needs to melt, not be baked for curing.

    Good to know. I was worried about reaching that 400 degree temperature listed on the packaging of the powder coating, and saw someone mention that you can check it with a wipe of solvent after baking to see if you baked it hot/long enough.

    The only time I've noticed the coating come off is when I tried sizing down a Lee .329'' bullet (which was about .332 with coating) down to a .323'' in a Lee push-thru sizer. It was scraping the stuff off as it entered, then getting VERY thin on the driving bands. Those I'll size down first, then coat from now on.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Very nice chart. However adding antimony, like wheel weights, linotype, and bullet casting metal, changes everything. :)

    Even 3%. :)
     

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