Possible Supreme Court case - Ammunition restrictions

ryan_j · Apr 11, 2014

Remember Brian Aitken?

If you may recall, he was jailed by NJ for possessing hollow point ammo. Through a loophole in the law, he was convicted because the law did not allow for an exception for moving hollow point ammo between one residence to another.

Well, as it turns out, I was told that he is petitioning his case to the US Supreme Court.

I don't have the brief yet, because the firm hasn't made it public, but when it is available I'll post it up.

He has a video:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...case-to-the-supreme-court-and-get-my-son-back

Brooklyn · Apr 11, 2014

Good heres hoping...

press1280 · Apr 11, 2014

May be a bit too complex. A total HP ammo ban would probably be a case more palatable to the court.
That being said, the guy is a poster boy for what can happen when an average citizen gets run over by the vague and poorly written NJ statutes.

PO2012 · Apr 11, 2014

press1280 said:
May be a bit too complex. A total HP ammo ban would probably be a case more palatable to the court.

Not necessarily. The right to keep and bear arms in the home has been clearly spelled out by SCOTUS. How can you exercise that right if you can't legally move ammunition from your old residence to your new residence? There's no rational basis for this law, none. Hollow point ammunition is actually safer than FMJ ammunition due to the fact that it doesn't exhibit the level of over penetration that FMJ rounds do and because it requires fewer rounds to incapacitate an aggressor. NJ doesn't have a leg to stand on in this case. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire law concerning hollow points is struck down should the matter reach SCOTUS. The law is absurd on its face.

ryan_j · Apr 11, 2014

press1280 said:
May be a bit too complex. A total HP ammo ban would probably be a case more palatable to the court.

As it is, HP ammo is pretty much limited to your home and the range. Not even your place of business.

Boxcab · Apr 14, 2014

ryan_j said:
As it is, HP ammo is pretty much limited to your home and the range. Not even your place of business.

Is there an exception that allows transport between home and the range? (Edit: Or from the store you buy it from?)

Mark75H · Apr 14, 2014

So, he could have conceivably legally transported the ammo from domicile 1 to a shooting range and from there to domicile 2 ... but not directly. How could they convince a judge that the law actually intended this and this makes NJ safer?

ryan_j · Apr 14, 2014

Mark75H said:
So, he could have conceivably legally transported the ammo from domicile 1 to a shooting range and from there to domicile 2 ... but not directly. How could they convince a judge that the law actually intended this and this makes NJ safer?

They don't have to. NJ state judges are activist to an extreme. Ever hear about Abbott and Mt Laurel? These two bad, activist decisions are a classic example of New Jersey judicial gymnastics.

ryan_j · Apr 14, 2014

Boxcab said:
Is there an exception that allows transport between home and the range? (Edit: Or from the store you buy it from?)

Yes.

Home to range OK, range to home OK. But home to home, or home to place of business not OK.

Brooklyn · Apr 14, 2014

The more publicity this stupidity gets the better ..

Does this restriction apply to permit holders -- that is leosa permits ?

This could get interesting if it does

ryan_j · Apr 14, 2014

Brooklyn said:
The more publicity this stupidity gets the better ..

Does this restriction apply to permit holders -- that is leosa permits ?

This could get interesting if it does

Absolutely. Only sworn active LEO can carry HPs, even off duty. Retired ones cannot.

Brooklyn · Apr 14, 2014

ryan_j said:
Absolutely. Only sworn active LEO can carry HPs, even off duty. Retired ones cannot.

sounds like a job for some federal legislation

.. perhaps pulling some federal law enforcement funds from NJ

Financial responsibility you know.

ryan_j · Apr 14, 2014

LEOSA does in fact nullify ammo restrictions. But NJ retired LEO in NJ are covered by the RPO permit which doesn't have LEOSA protections.

Brooklyn · Apr 14, 2014

ryan_j said:
LEOSA does in fact nullify ammo restrictions. But NJ retired LEO in NJ are covered by the RPO permit which doesn't have LEOSA protections.

Ah ..

F8L_Funnel · Apr 14, 2014

Brooklyn said:
The more publicity this stupidity gets the better ..

Does this restriction apply to permit holders -- that is leosa permits ?

This could get interesting if it does

To carry under LEOSA either off-duty or retired, you are bound by state laws when carrying a non-agency issued firearm(more for active LEO). If you are active LE, general rule of thumb is you follow your agency guidelines concerning Off-Duty carry as the state generally recognizes your individual agencies legal authority to enforce law, off-duty. They all have their own
rules in regards to agency-issue vs. personally owned.

LEOSA does not grant privileges that supersede any state laws except for concealed carry(benefit for retired LEO)

ryan_j · Apr 14, 2014

F8L_Funnel said:
LEOSA does not grant privileges that supersede any state laws except for concealed carry(benefit for retired LEO)

In 2010 Obama signed an amendment to the law that superseded state ammunition restrictions. So now anyone covered under the law can carry any ammo, as long as it is not prohibited by the NFA. This was specifically done to address the NJ hollow point restriction.

Boxcab · Apr 15, 2014

ryan j,

Thanks for the education. Keep us up to date as information becomes available.

ryan_j · May 1, 2014

The petition has been filed. Looking to see if I can get a copy.

krucam · May 2, 2014

No petition found, but he is definitely filed a Petition. He's on the Docket at One First:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/13-1136.htm

Minuteman · May 2, 2014

ryan_j said:
In 2010 Obama signed an amendment to the law that superseded state ammunition restrictions. So now anyone covered under the law can carry any ammo, as long as it is not prohibited by the NFA. This was specifically done to address the NJ hollow point restriction.

Correct.

Hollowpoints ok for LEOSA in Jersey, and they know it.

Possible Supreme Court case - Ammunition restrictions

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