Savage cancels 300BLK loading due to poor accuracy

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  • ohen cepel

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 2, 2011
    4,515
    Where they send me.
    From the Savage home page:
    Link if needed: http://www.savagearms.com/

    300 AAC Blackout Chambering Cancelled:

    Some time ago, Savage announced it would be chambering the Model 10 Precision Carbine in 300 AAC Blackout. Since that time, we have tested many variants of this cartridge in various barrel lengths and rates of twist. This exhaustive testing left us quite unsatisfied with the accuracy we were able to get from the subsonic loads in this chambering. Accuracy with the lighter, faster loads in this caliber was actually quite good. But we believe the real value in this cartridge lies in the use of subsonic loads for suppressed rifles. Therefore we have decided to scrap the project.

    It is our understanding that pushing these heavy, slow bullets presents challenges not found in typical loadings and that our experience is not unique. Subsequently, many in the industry have simply adopted a lower standard for accuracy for these subsonic loads. While this does seem reasonable and we don't criticize any in our industry that have taken this approach, it just won't work for Savage.

    Our brand was built on accuracy and we are too protective of our reputation for building the most accurate factory rifles available. We would rather walk away from this opportunity than sell a product that requires an explanation.
     

    BradMacc82

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Aug 17, 2011
    26,177
    I can't fault them for taking that position, it'd be nice to have more options, but if they're not happy with the accuracy they've gotten from the test mule, then that's their choice.
     

    sailskidrive

    Legalize the Constitution
    Oct 16, 2011
    5,547
    Route 27
    Interesting. Isn't the whole point of the 300AAC a bigger, heavier, slower moving bullet for use in the AR platform? Prime example being the "in your face" Honey Badger?
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,886
    Rockville, MD
    That's a rather public slam on the cartridge (or that set of loadings for it, anyways). Wonder what inspired them to go so public about it?
     

    midcountyg

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 7, 2009
    2,665
    Preston, MD
    I am sure they are testing with available factory loads, as that is what most people buying factory rifles are going to do. The problem is, I have yet to see a factory subsonic load that offers acceptable accuracy. I have shot factory loads, and customers have shot factory loads from several suppliers. I have seen the rifles I have built repeatably shoot 1/2 MOA(some groups have been better) at 100 yds with my loads, but the same rifles unable to stay on a pie plate at 100 yds with factory loads. My guess is they don't want to put a rifle on the market and then have complaints from people who aren't hand loading. I have said it years ago, and will say again. The 300 Whisper, and now AAC Blackout, are very accurate cartridges when you do your part. With current offerings, hand loading is the only way to go.
     

    Russ D

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 10, 2008
    12,040
    Sykesville
    Agreed.QFT! :thumbsup: Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't think it substantially betters the .40 S&W.

    It does substantially better the .40 S@W when loaded supersonic. The benefit of the cartridge is it's flexibility. IMHO this is a BS public relations move by Savage to slam AAC and in reality has nothing to do with the cartridge. With my 9" Noveske .300 BLK upper shooting off a pistol lower I can easily hold 1 moa at 100 yards with supersonic hand loads. I have not even bothered with factory loads so I cannot comment there. I have not heard from one single .300 BLK owner that they cannot achieve good accuracy. Yet another reason I'm not a Savage fan.
     

    sailskidrive

    Legalize the Constitution
    Oct 16, 2011
    5,547
    Route 27
    lol. Savage WIN.

    I hate alternative calibers.

    I just feel the ammo is so stupidly expensive that's it's not worth buying one right now. I enjoy shooting my guns and if I am going to spend $15 a box, it better be able to reach out and touch something at 300 plus yards.

    I guess for folks like Russ who have dies for it, it's not cost prohibitive.
     

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,317
    Mid-Merlind
    It does substantially better the .40 S@W when loaded supersonic.
    I was jokingly making the comparison with Chad's pet load.
    The benefit of the cartridge is it's flexibility. IMHO this is a BS public relations move by Savage to slam AAC and in reality has nothing to do with the cartridge. With my 9" Noveske .300 BLK upper shooting off a pistol lower I can easily hold 1 moa at 100 yards with supersonic hand loads. I have not even bothered with factory loads so I cannot comment there. I have not heard from one single .300 BLK owner that they cannot achieve good accuracy. Yet another reason I'm not a Savage fan.
    They said supersonics were fine, but they couldn't get the performance with subsonics.

    I find it had to believe that subsonics in this case size are that hard to get to shoot well. When I hear of the .300BLK, but it seems most folks are shooting them at very close range with carbines, so absolute accuracy may be difficult to gage. I'd wonder what twist they are using in the Salvage.
     

    Billman

    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
    May 18, 2010
    1,273
    Sykesville, MD
    The Remington factory subsonic ammo I shot had two major issues. The first issue was the ftf related to bad primers, perhaps it was a bad bunch, but literally 30% of the primers did not ignite. Second issue was accuracy, shooting from a prone position I was routinely seeing 8-9" groups at 65 yards.
    The same gun with a tuned hand load was able to achieve a ragged hole at the same distance.
    I must admit, I still missed the groundhog, but you know how that goes, groundhog fever!
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    What Savage meant to say is that .300BLK turns your gun into an AK when shooting FACTORY Subloads (Accuracy Wise) unless you reload.

    I hate alternative calibers and I hate reloading.
     

    Russ D

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 10, 2008
    12,040
    Sykesville
    I was jokingly making the comparison with Chad's pet load.They said supersonics were fine, but they couldn't get the performance with subsonics.

    I find it had to believe that subsonics in this case size are that hard to get to shoot well. When I hear of the .300BLK, but it seems most folks are shooting them at very close range with carbines, so absolute accuracy may be difficult to gage. I'd wonder what twist they are using in the Salvage.

    From what I read in a post from Rsilvers they intentionally ignored AAC's recommendations on rate of twist. To me that means they made a choice to make a gun they knew wouldn't pass their standard's so they could then dismiss the caliber.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,538
    SoMD / West PA
    clandestine said:
    What Savage meant to say is that .300BLK turns your gun into an AK when shooting FACTORY Subloads (Accuracy Wise) unless you reload.

    I hate alternative calibers and I hate reloading.

    ARs aren't that reliable! :lol2:
     

    Russ D

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 10, 2008
    12,040
    Sykesville
    What Savage meant to say is that .300BLK turns your gun into an AK when shooting FACTORY Subloads (Accuracy Wise) unless you reload.

    I hate alternative calibers and I hate reloading.

    I'm not a big fan of alternative loadings, but the versatility of the 300BLK and the fact that I do enjoy reloading make it a good choice for me.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    I'm not a big fan of alternative loadings, but the versatility of the 300BLK and the fact that I do enjoy reloading make it a good choice for me.

    I don't disagree with anything you said at all. the problem for me is that I don't reload and I probably never will. I simply don't have the time , so if my firearms can't shoot factory loads extremely well then I re barrel them or simply replace the entire firearm with 1 that will shoot to my standards with a factory load.
     

    Russ D

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 10, 2008
    12,040
    Sykesville
    I don't disagree with anything you said at all. the problem for me is that I don't reload and I probably never will. I simply don't have the time , so if my firearms can't shoot factory loads extremely well then I re barrel them or simply replace the entire firearm with 1 that will shoot to my standards with a factory load.

    I think the factory supersonics have very good reported accuracy from factory ammo. I cannot comment on the subs though. I believe Savage created this issue just for the attention to take a shot at AAC.
     

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