Individuals cannot ask for AG opinions. A member of the GA or MSP must do it on your (or our) behalf.
Maryland Designated Regulated Firearms Collector
- Thread starter rmiddle
- Start date
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HauptsAriba
Active Member
Smiegel!
ask Mike to do it before he leaves office.
sad.
sad.
HauptsAriba
Active Member
Very unfortunate to lose him, agreed. Not sure what the circumstances revolving around his loss of support by his constituents was. Nor is it clear what his replacement will be like.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
No.
Since the MSP has the information in their system, and you don't need to show the letter to anyone, they don't give replacements.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
With all of the scuttlebutt in this post about what makes you bona fide or not, had anyone called MSP or the AG's office for a clarification on the matter? I would be of the opinion that since it is MD law that makes the quote/statute, and MD law has a designation for designated collector, that it would go without question that obtaining this status would most certainly comply or jive with the statutes revolving around ( designated collector) I would not rely on having a C and R and said designation, as this is a Federal designation, and it is a State law being examined. State law, State designation as collector. Seems to be consistent. Having a C and R in addition to the State designation would only add to ones claim of being bona fide, but I would not rely on the C and R alone.
We should get written clarification from MSP and Dougie, as he is more co operative than MR. Frosh is going to be.
There is a difference between bona fide and designated.
clint
Active Member
It seems like in some cases that the MSP has required people to have purchased at least one regulated firearm before issuing the DC status so at least 1 is required in their view.
Makes sense. You can't be designated as a collector of anything if you don't own at least one IMO.
Others may disagree.
Others may disagree.
Threeband
The M1 Does My Talking
If it ever comes up, I expect it to be decided on a case by case basis, possibly in court, possibly in a smoke filled office somewhere.
You will never, never, never, never get any binding clarification from the AG. That would defeat the entire purpose. Don't you see? They'll never tie their own hands like that.
Many, many points of law are deliberately left undefined. That's not just a gun thing, and not just a Maryland thing. These undefined, unsettled points allow flexibility in dealing with individual cases or unforeseen circumstances. They also provide job security for lawyers. All those gray areas are the playground of the lawyers.
I strongly suspect the provision was added to the law in a circumstance like this:
>The transport law was proposed and introduced.
>During the debate, someone pointed out that guns are sometimes used in dog obedience classes. "Okay, okay. We'll put something in there about dog obedience classes."
>Then it was pointed out that collectors need to be able to transport their collections for exhibit.
"Well, okay, but how can we tell it's a legitimate collector? We definitely don't want Joe Schmoe just driving around with a .45 claiming he's going to an exhibit. That is exactly what this law is intended to put a stop to."
"Oh, no, nothing like that. I'm talking about legitimate, bona fide collectors."
"Well, maybe... but only for bona fide collectors..."
Remember, this law was enacted many, many years before the "one gun a month" law, with it's "Designated Collector" exemption.
If I were a prosecutor looking to nail your ass, I would demand evidence of genuine collecting activity, and recognition as a collector by other collectors. "Tell me about your client's collecting activity." "Tell me about this so called 'private exibition' your client claims he was going to." "Was your client transporting display cases, tables, anything to facilitate his exibition?" "I notice your client was transporting 400 rounds of ammunition. Isn't ammunition normally prohibited at an exibition?"
I'm really sorry to bust anyone's bubble, but if any of us goes before an anti-gun Maryland judge and tries to argue, "I was going to stop by my friend Joe's house and show him my new Glock. I have this letter that says I'm a Designated Collector, and Joe's house is a private exibition." ... well, I don't think it will work.
Designated Collector status is not a Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card. It doesn't automatically make you a Bona Fide Collector, whatever the hell that is.
Bona Fide means Good Faith. The court will want to see evidence that you were acting in Good Faith. If it appears that you were trying to "game the system" I doubt it will go well for you.
You will never, never, never, never get any binding clarification from the AG. That would defeat the entire purpose. Don't you see? They'll never tie their own hands like that.
Many, many points of law are deliberately left undefined. That's not just a gun thing, and not just a Maryland thing. These undefined, unsettled points allow flexibility in dealing with individual cases or unforeseen circumstances. They also provide job security for lawyers. All those gray areas are the playground of the lawyers.
I strongly suspect the provision was added to the law in a circumstance like this:
>The transport law was proposed and introduced.
>During the debate, someone pointed out that guns are sometimes used in dog obedience classes. "Okay, okay. We'll put something in there about dog obedience classes."
>Then it was pointed out that collectors need to be able to transport their collections for exhibit.
"Well, okay, but how can we tell it's a legitimate collector? We definitely don't want Joe Schmoe just driving around with a .45 claiming he's going to an exhibit. That is exactly what this law is intended to put a stop to."
"Oh, no, nothing like that. I'm talking about legitimate, bona fide collectors."
"Well, maybe... but only for bona fide collectors..."
Remember, this law was enacted many, many years before the "one gun a month" law, with it's "Designated Collector" exemption.
If I were a prosecutor looking to nail your ass, I would demand evidence of genuine collecting activity, and recognition as a collector by other collectors. "Tell me about your client's collecting activity." "Tell me about this so called 'private exibition' your client claims he was going to." "Was your client transporting display cases, tables, anything to facilitate his exibition?" "I notice your client was transporting 400 rounds of ammunition. Isn't ammunition normally prohibited at an exibition?"
I'm really sorry to bust anyone's bubble, but if any of us goes before an anti-gun Maryland judge and tries to argue, "I was going to stop by my friend Joe's house and show him my new Glock. I have this letter that says I'm a Designated Collector, and Joe's house is a private exibition." ... well, I don't think it will work.
Designated Collector status is not a Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card. It doesn't automatically make you a Bona Fide Collector, whatever the hell that is.
Bona Fide means Good Faith. The court will want to see evidence that you were acting in Good Faith. If it appears that you were trying to "game the system" I doubt it will go well for you.
Right_to_arm_bears
OIF, OND, & OEF Vet.
I just submitted my Designated Collector form today. I have purchased regulated weapons in MD(seems to be a gray area on this one) so I hope I don't run into any issues. I will let you know when I get a response.
Right_to_arm_bears
OIF, OND, & OEF Vet.
Nice, they have to know who to hit up first when they come to confiscate them. I just submitted mine yesterday.
OrbitalEllipses
Ultimate Member
Your 77R already accomplished that.
nathanbmiller
Member
- Mar 29, 2013
- 25
I sent mine last friday. I'll reply once I receive my letter.
I'll post here when I hear back on it.
I'm curious to see if yours or mine will come first with yours being the day before mine lol
HauptsAriba
Active Member
You make a lot of good points. It is just my opinion that the MD designated collector status would render one a ( bona fide ) collector as you have a document from the State who is telling you that if you are a ( bona fide ) collector you may do this, that and the other that you are a designated collector. That is a credential,which supports good faith, and makes your status as a collector in the state, pretty official. Again, you make many great points, and I am sure no one on the forum wants to use it as a ( test case ) affirmative defense, but would much prefer to be able to resolve the matter, if it came up, at the side of the road where you were pulled over by the peace office.
Example: Yes officer, I understand that MD law does not allow the average citizen to carry a pistol in the backseat even though it is unloaded and in a case, however I am a MD designated collector, and right here with my copy of the F.O.P.A, and a copy of the statute I am referencing, I have a letter from the MSP or AG's office that affirms that they consider a ( bona fide ) collector to be an individual who....?
Is a MD citizen in good standing, who has a DC status and can prove as such when the question arises?
Is a MD citizen who owns at least 50 firearms?
Is a MD citizen who knows someone in a high political office, or is a cousin to the local sherrif?
Is anyone with a C and R license?
The issue here, is that what we as a community need, is a written clarification on the matter from either MSP or the AG's office. I believe we are better off getting it from Gansler then from Frosh. Not that Frosh is in office yet, or guaranteed to be, but it seems likely.
Whomever has an idea of how/who we can get (that has the power to make it happen) to assist in this, it would be great to have some clarity on it, if we get no clarity,then that's what we get. I for one, would rather know what it means, or does not, than cross my fingers and hope that it may be successful as a affirmative defense. The idea, is that by being in compliance with the law, and knowing the law, you don't have to wind up in court to verify the law, or find out it does not mean what you though it did.
I may try to contact Delegate Herb Mcmillian, and see if he would put the question forth to the AG's office ASAP.
Anyone have a better idea? All ears on the matter.
You're on the right track. Only a member of the GA or MSP can ask for an AG opinion AFAIK.
HauptsAriba
Active Member
Yes, it was your former advice on same that made me think of Herb, he is my delegate.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
BTW FOPA only covers you in transiting THROUGH a state. Not for travel to or from or within a state.
Again bona fide and designated are TOTALLY different things.
Again bona fide and designated are TOTALLY different things.
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