ZQI overpressure ammo

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  • silanehead

    Sarcastic Member
    Oct 24, 2012
    532
    Dundalk
    Just a question:
    Wouldn't it be a good idea to mic a few unfired rounds from that particular lot?
    Maybe COAL, case diameter or case length?
     

    traveller

    The one with two L
    Nov 26, 2010
    18,268
    variable
    I dont think this is a case of 'bad ammo' or 'bad gun' more one of 'wrong ammo'. The stuff probably works just fine in the MP5s and Uzis it is loaded for.
     

    Racinready300ex

    Active Member
    Jun 3, 2009
    381
    I've been testing some pretty hot 9mm loads for my new competition gun. Hot like 125 gr bullet at 1400 FPS.

    My brass doesn't look like that.
     

    coopermania

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 20, 2011
    3,815
    Indiana
    How about posting some pics of the brass that was fired from these so called vetted pistols ?
    Some vetted pistols are not designed for anything but anemic 9mm ammo made in the USA. The Nato, +P and the +P+ pressure is more than they can stand.
     

    Pretoria78

    URX Fan
    Mar 30, 2008
    628
    Northern Virginia
    How about posting some pics of the brass that was fired from these so called vetted pistols ?
    Some vetted pistols are not designed for anything but anemic 9mm ammo made in the USA. The Nato, +P and the +P+ pressure is more than they can stand.

    FNS9 - 2,084 rounds

    Glock 34 Gen 4- 1,233 rounds

    Glock 17 Gen 4 USA made- 4,187 rounds

    Glock 17 Gen 4 Austrian made- 21,814 rounds

    All are maintained at the proper intervals, and each have a log book detailing rounds fired, ammunition type, stoppages and maintenance performed.


    You'll note that none of these handguns are designed for "anemic" 9mm ammo.

    I don't have any of the brass on hand, but the blown primers did give me reason to NOT buy or use this ammunition again.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    I fired a bunch of this through my m&p9c and jennis p99 with no issues. Maybe a bad lot? It's loaded to NATO pressure, so it's a little hotter than white box.
     

    coopermania

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 20, 2011
    3,815
    Indiana
    FNS9 - 2,084 rounds

    Glock 34 Gen 4- 1,233 rounds

    Glock 17 Gen 4 USA made- 4,187 rounds

    Glock 17 Gen 4 Austrian made- 21,814 rounds

    All are maintained at the proper intervals, and each have a log book detailing rounds fired, ammunition type, stoppages and maintenance performed.


    You'll note that none of these handguns are designed for "anemic" 9mm ammo.

    I don't have any of the brass on hand, but the blown primers did give me reason to NOT buy or use this ammunition again.


    So you keep a logbook for all rounds that these vetted pistols have shot, The manufacturer and type of ammo shot and all stoppages and maintenance that has been done on said vetted pistols. Correct ?
    But yet someone ( you ) that is that retentive enough to write down and keep that much information on each firearm does not keep the factory brass or pictures that has massive overpressure, up to and including blown out primer pockets and that had issues in 4 different pistols ?
    Now me I most certainly don't keep that information on my firearms but I do know that if I had overpressure issues with some factory ammo that I was shooting and I tried it in another firearm and it also had overpressure issues I would stop shooting that ammo right then. Not fire it in another two pistols.

    Personally I don't believe you had issues with this ammo, Someone that is willing to write down and keep the information you say you keep. Would have kept all the information that was available to you when this happened. Most of all pictures. So my opinion is.:sad20: .
     

    Lucca1

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 9, 2013
    1,002
    Behind Enemy Lines
    How about posting some pics of the brass that was fired from these so called vetted pistols ?
    Some vetted pistols are not designed for anything but anemic 9mm ammo made in the USA. The Nato, +P and the +P+ pressure is more than they can stand.

    Unfortunately I didn't save the brass although I should have. I have fired both + P and the Win 9mm nato (Q4318) without issue but not anything in the +P+ range. Perhaps it is a bad lot. I would be happy to donate the remaining 47 rounds to anyone that wants to test it.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Speaking in General Theorizing

    And not particularily regarding the OP's situation.

    * How come my firarm is OK with A,B and C ammo , but not X ? *

    Yes , there are industry standards for various specs and dimentions. BUT :

    1. Sometimes tooling life gets stretched a bit too far.

    2. Sometimes machinists have a hungover monday morning.

    3. Sometimes a mfg will set their design parameters to emphasize certain factors over others. Such as smooth feeding and chambering, even of somewhat oversized ammo, even in dirty conditions. And sure enough they'll feed like corn thru a goose. Modern factory ammo is great stuff, and the brass will ususlly take care of the slack. Target audiences of Mil and LE use factory ammo excluvivly, and frown on jams. The fired brass might have similey faces, buthey the owners manual say in plain language to not use reloads, so what's it matter.

    But maybe a particular lot of ammo is right at upper edge of pressure spec. And maybe that lot of brass is right at the edge of softness or brittleness. The tolerence stack is eating into what started as a generous marin of error.

    Mean while between wear and tear, different component vendor, hungover machinists and fitters , there's some tolerence stack going in the disconector/ fire control workings, and the firing pin will go into action 0.001 too soon before slide is all the last bit into battery ? Now your're on the threshold of an involentary schrapnel event.

    Sure maybe everything *seemed* fine with ammo 3K less in pressure. But there was a whole lota unnoticed tolerence stack going on already.

    And this concept isn't just for semiautos.

    A certain semi-popular line of value priced revolvers ( cough pre-Taraus Rossi's ,cough ) were notorous for having funky headspace and chambers. They'll work fine with R-P std vel RNL , but most +P is prone to locking up. Or work with most .38n lock up on .357 as case may be. With the lower pressure ammo , the ammo served as a crutch to cover up the other issues.

    [ And I didn't drop the brand name some of you were waiting to see.]
     

    Pretoria78

    URX Fan
    Mar 30, 2008
    628
    Northern Virginia
    So you keep a logbook for all rounds that these vetted pistols have shot, The manufacturer and type of ammo shot and all stoppages and maintenance that has been done on said vetted pistols. Correct ?
    But yet someone ( you ) that is that retentive enough to write down and keep that much information on each firearm does not keep the factory brass or pictures that has massive overpressure, up to and including blown out primer pockets and that had issues in 4 different pistols ?
    Now me I most certainly don't keep that information on my firearms but I do know that if I had overpressure issues with some factory ammo that I was shooting and I tried it in another firearm and it also had overpressure issues I would stop shooting that ammo right then. Not fire it in another two pistols.

    Personally I don't believe you had issues with this ammo, Someone that is willing to write down and keep the information you say you keep. Would have kept all the information that was available to you when this happened. Most of all pictures. So my opinion is.:sad20: .

    Believe what you like.
     
    Last edited:

    Intercooler

    Active Member
    Jun 10, 2012
    779
    I will take your 47 rounds and document them. Are they the same batch as pictured in the photos? I can swap you 47 in another flavor.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    The cases look like they were fired with the barrel partially unlocked. Its odd. MAybe the breach face was not cut square. Put a machinist square on the face and look at the other edge on the bottom of the slide it should be level with the rails.

    IMO, it can ALWAYS be an ammo issue. I see weird things with ammo all of the time.
     

    coopermania

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 20, 2011
    3,815
    Indiana
    The cases look like they were fired with the barrel partially unlocked. Its odd. MAybe the breach face was not cut square. Put a machinist square on the face and look at the other edge on the bottom of the slide it should be level with the rails.

    IMO, it can ALWAYS be an ammo issue. I see weird things with ammo all of the time.


    Absolutely it could be that or the rifleing touches the bullets and stops pistol from going into battery. And a few other things can cause it.
    But that pistol is firing out of battery. The last pictures chad show the bulge all the way around the case.
     

    coopermania

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 20, 2011
    3,815
    Indiana
    I will take your 47 rounds and document them. Are they the same batch as pictured in the photos? I can swap you 47 in another flavor.

    The pictures are not from the member offering ammo.
    This is not the OP intercooler, He chimed in about halfway into this thread.
     

    Lucca1

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 9, 2013
    1,002
    Behind Enemy Lines
    I can post the lot number as soon as I get home this evening to see if they are from the same batch that the OP had issues with. Either way, I'm still happy to pass them along for evaluation. No need to send 47 in return. Your findings would be worth much more then the ammo itself.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Absolutely it could be that or the rifleing touches the bullets and stops pistol from going into battery. And a few other things can cause it.
    But that pistol is firing out of battery. The last pictures chad show the bulge all the way around the case.

    My thought was, pull the barrel and drop the rounds in to see if they seat to full depth without needing any force.

    I would bet they don't.

    And as you mentioned earlier, the pictures show the bulging at the TOP of the case. So either the barrel is WAY over throated, or the round is firing out of battery.
     

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