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    Engage Armament

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Jun 30, 2010
    3,759
    Rockville, MD
    Engage Armament said:
    Wow.
    Click to expand...

    No idea who the one guy is. However I know who Flipz is. He is way off point saying something like that. The MSP dealer seminar? Really? Is that anything like the last one, where everything they told us was a lie? Or was it an open debate there where dealers were able to argue over the legality of MD's new laws and MSP listened and then altered their policies in response to us pointing out our rights? I didn't think so.

    So because you attended a bullsh*t seminar and we're lectured by some of the very people destroying your rights you are now a champion of MD firearms rights? Speaking of meetings and seminars, how many times has Flipz or one of his representatives attended an MLFDA meeting? Pretty sure after 3 years of attending meetings and being on the board I have seen him or his reps 0 times.

    Anytime Flipz wants to go half and half paying attorneys to challenge this law just let me know. Otherwise, shut up, and say "Hey thanks Andy, I know you're doing things that are helping my business and haven't asked for a cent from me."

    So while we're at this Flipz, you should also thank Atlantic Guns, Shooters Discount, the Cop Shop, On Target (who is solely responsible for the collapsible stock feature being removed from the copy cat test), Worth-a-Shot, Camfour distributors, and probably a few others who I have forgotten.

    There were a ton of people fighting "behind the scenes" who did a ton of things and threw around A LOT of money last year, you just weren't one of them.
     
    clandestine

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,032
    Elkton, MD
    Engage Armament said:
    No idea who the one guy is. However I know who Flipz is. He is way off point saying something like that. The MSP dealer seminar? Really? Is that anything like the last one, where everything they told us was a lie? Or was it an open debate there where dealers were able to argue over the legality of MD's new laws and MSP listened and then altered their policies in response to us pointing out our rights? I didn't think so.

    So because you attended a bullsh*t seminar and we're lectured by some of the very people destroying your rights you are now a champion of MD firearms rights? Speaking of meetings and seminars, how many times has Flipz or one of his representatives attended an MLFDA meeting? Pretty sure after 3 years of attending meetings and being on the board I have seen him or his reps 0 times.

    Anytime Flipz wants to go half and half paying attorneys to challenge this law just let me know. Otherwise, shut up, and say "Hey thanks Andy, I know you're doing things that are helping my business and haven't asked for a cent from me."

    So while we're at this Flipz, you should also thank Atlantic Guns, Shooters Discount, the Cop Shop, On Target (who is solely responsible for the collapsible stock feature being removed from the copy cat test), Worth-a-Shot, Camfour distributors, and probably a few others who I have forgotten.

    There were a ton of people fighting "behind the scenes" who did a ton of things and threw around A LOT of money last year, you just weren't one of them.
    Click to expand...

    When you are right you, you are right. :thumbsup:
     
    O

    OrbitalEllipses

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 18, 2013
    4,140
    DPR of MoCo
    usWkIs5.png
     
    F

    Flipz

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 11, 2010
    3,193
    Engage Armament said:
    No idea who the one guy is. However I know who Flipz is. He is way off point saying something like that. The MSP dealer seminar? Really? Is that anything like the last one, where everything they told us was a lie? Or was it an open debate there where dealers were able to argue over the legality of MD's new laws and MSP listened and then altered their policies in response to us pointing out our rights? I didn't think so.

    So because you attended a bullsh*t seminar and we're lectured by some of the very people destroying your rights you are now a champion of MD firearms rights? Speaking of meetings and seminars, how many times has Flipz or one of his representatives attended an MLFDA meeting? Pretty sure after 3 years of attending meetings and being on the board I have seen him or his reps 0 times.

    Anytime Flipz wants to go half and half paying attorneys to challenge this law just let me know. Otherwise, shut up, and say "Hey thanks Andy, I know you're doing things that are helping my business and haven't asked for a cent from me."

    So while we're at this Flipz, you should also thank Atlantic Guns, Shooters Discount, the Cop Shop, On Target (who is solely responsible for the collapsible stock feature being removed from the copy cat test), Worth-a-Shot, Camfour distributors, and probably a few others who I have forgotten.

    There were a ton of people fighting "behind the scenes" who did a ton of things and threw around A LOT of money last year, you just weren't one of them.
    Click to expand...

    My response to Wayne was specifically in regard to his voiced opinion that other FFL's don't have the balls to challenge MSP, that's it. Even you admit that Engage is not the only MD FFL in this fight, and that was the only point I was making. I never said anything negative about Engage, it's part in the 2A fight, or your work. In fact, even though its pretty clear that you have something against me, I commend you and all the other FFL'S standing up for our rights. That was the entire point of my response to him. The time and money spent by FFL's in this fight is huge. That was the point of my reply to Wayne and from his response it looks like he understood that. To give credit to everyone who is doing their part to challenge MSP and their misinformed opinions. Obviously you saw what I wrote as something different than that. And because of that I wanted to take this opportunity to show exactly what my intentions were.

    I brought up the seminar because it was an opportunity to stand face to face with MSP and voice our concerns. Even though they skirted around some of our questions it made it clear to them that we're very informed on what their misconceptions are and that we aren't afraid to call them out on it. That they will receive constant reminders and letters like yours to make them reverse their misinformed opinion. Thats why I wrote what I did on Arfcom. Because to be blunt, I was suprised and kinda bummed you didnt show. Whether you want to accept this is your decision but, believe it or not, I was hoping you'd be there. To ask questions and make them nervous like the rest of us were doing. Or just to show them that none of us are laying down in this fight and given the opportunity we will stand face to face with them and remind them that we're all still in this. And to your credit, the MR556 being re-examined was brought up in the meeting. They let us know what we had to do in order to get things reevaluated for removal from the ban list. Without you submitting it I'm sure they wouldn't have said anything to us about it. So again, I commend you.

    If I had the money I'd give as much as I could to help in this fight. I really would. I'm a single income household and right now all my money goes to bills and just surviving. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Times are tough and I do what I can. If it means spending 4 hours with MSP just so I can speak to them for a few minutes regarding my concerns that's what I will do, and that's exactly what I did. I am doing what I can to help. And if you have others ideas of how I can help further please let me know as I'd be happy to do it. I'm an employee, not an employer. I don't have reps, it's just me and my opinions are on my shoulders and are not representations of anyone else's. If you want to, I'd be more than happy to meet up and talk about it. I sent you a PM with my number so if you feel like it give me a call.
     
    Last edited:
    E

    Engage Armament

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Jun 30, 2010
    3,759
    Rockville, MD
    Flipz said:
    My response to Wayne was specifically in regard to his voiced opinion that other FFL's don't have the balls to challenge MSP, that's it. Even you admit that Engage is not the only MD FFL in this fight, and that was the only point I was making. I never said anything negative about Engage, it's part in the 2A fight, or your work. In fact, even though its pretty clear that you have something against me, I commend you and all the other FFL'S standing up for our rights. That was the entire point of my response to him. The time and money spent by FFL's in this fight is huge. That was the point of my reply to Wayne and from his response it looks like he understood that. To give credit to everyone who is doing their part to challenge MSP and their misinformed opinions. Obviously you saw what I wrote as something different than that. And because of that I wanted to take this opportunity to show exactly what my intentions were.

    I brought up the seminar because it was an opportunity to stand face to face with MSP and voice our concerns. Even though they skirted around some of our questions it made it clear to them that we're very informed on what their misconceptions are and that we aren't afraid to call them out on it. That they will receive constant reminders and letters like yours to make them reverse their misinformed opinion. Thats why I wrote what I did on Arfcom. Because to be blunt, I was suprised and kinda bummed you didnt show. Whether you want to accept this is your decision but, believe it or not, I was hoping you'd be there. To ask questions and make them nervous like the rest of us were doing. Or just to show them that none of us are laying down in this fight and given the opportunity we will stand face to face with them and remind them that we're all still in this. And to your credit, the MR556 being re-examined was brought up in the meeting. They let us know what we had to do in order to get things reevaluated for removal from the ban list. Without you submitting it I'm sure they wouldn't have said anything to us about it. So again, I commend you.

    If I had the money I'd give as much as I could to help in this fight. I really would. I'm a single income household and right now all my money goes to bills and just surviving. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Times are tough and I do what I can. If it means spending 4 hours with MSP just so I can speak to them for a few minutes regarding my concerns that's what I will do, and that's exactly what I did. I am doing what I can to help. And if you have others ideas of how I can help further please let me know as I'd be happy to do it. I'm an employee, not an employer. I don't have reps, it's just me and my opinions are on my shoulders and are not representations of anyone else's. If you want to, I'd be more than happy to meet up and talk about it. I sent you a PM with my number so if you feel like it give me a call.
    Click to expand...

    Flipz, I get what youre saying here. However I am also not in a financially strong position. And that is my point here.

    We all wrote letters and protested last year. We all emailed people and put money into the fight against these ****tards. In the end though, they didn't listen. They don't care what anyone has to say. They don't care about your concerns or your arguments at a dealer seminar. I mean MSP answers to the same people who ignored 4,000 protesters and probably tens of thousands phone calls and emails and passed this law. The time for expressing concerns it over. Its over. It has crossed a line into a place where reason and debate no longer have a place. They made it this way.

    If letters, emails, and 4,000 protesters didn't do it last year, a well thought out email will not do it this year. That is why we, Engage Armament, has spent a lot of money to contest these laws under administrative procedures. This costs money, a lot of it. This money was earned with my time, sweat, and drive. So when Engage Armament scores a victory I do want it out there because its something I am proud of. It is part of my legacy. A lot of people want to define me and this business through the Smart Gun incident. Most of those people do not know me personally. Asides from shoving it to politicians who shoved this ******** law down our throats, I want to shove these victories down the throats of the people who called me a traitor and who never knew me and pretended to know or understand my motivations. When they go buy a lower or an MR556 or get an SBR they should know that we did that. Not MSI, the NRA, or the MLFDA. WE DID THAT. Enjoy your SBR, continue your shit talking, but just like a welfare queen know that it was I that fought and paid to get that right back to you.

    As I said before, voicing your concerns or sending emails is no longer an option. This is a jihad; a Holy War of those on the side of righteousness (us) against the non-believers who want to destroy our God-given/natural rights. A jihad or a crusade isn't fought with emails saying "you can't do that" or "I think that a pistol frame is..." because they longer listen. Its time to escalate.

    I am involved in the front and behind the scenes. I'm sure there are other people who are contributing or trying to contribute. However its not enough. While this lawsuit concerning the HQL and the AWB languishes in court we lose everyday. People like us and Duffys are getting in "in-your-face" with it, and thats my style and how I believe this war should be fought. If you think what you're doing it right, keep on doing it. I cannot argue with a man who is doing what he thinks is right.

    Bottom line is that yes, they passed this law. However that doesn't mean we cannot fight it. Every part of that law and their interpretations of it can and should be challenged. Every work around should be sought and shored up. Every little misapplication and misinterpretation should be challenged and defeated. If we have to sue we pony up and we sue. That is the only way to win this fight. We ALL need to step up and directly challenge this.
     
    Wayne1one

    Wayne1one

    gun aficionado
    Feb 13, 2011
    3,131
    Bowie, MD
    Sometimes one needs to be patted on the back publicly. It happens everywhere, and this situation is no different. If you get a victory there is nothing wrong with people congratulating you for that particular victory (especially publicly). Let one bask in their victory, they earned it. I never thought it appropriate to steal ones shine. When anyone gets a win we will be there to applaud and celebrate that win, there is more than enough jubilation to go around!

    I posted this in another thread and this is my opinion...

    Wayne1one said:
    I feel that if you are showering praise to someone, Engage in this situation you should make sure that the praises are direct and obvious! Thanks for all you do Engage and gang! :D
    .
    Click to expand...
     
    A

    antco

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 28, 2010
    7,050
    Calvert, MD
    I have a factory Colt 11.5" upper on an Engage lower with this stock. It has the standard flash hider. I just measured for you and came up with 25.875" collapsed and 28.75" extended.
     
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