FFL's can modify mags prior to sale - ship them to free state

rsj1231 · Apr 20, 2015

Is it written online anywhere that states FFL's can modify magazines with a greater capacity than 10 rounds, to accept 10 rounds prior to transfer or sale of a firearm?

OR, is it written anywhere that states the FFL can legally ship the magazines to a neighboring state?

I am looking for a bill, or some sort of official document stating this. An FFL I deal with from time to time said the MSP told him he is not allowed to modify magazines or ship them out of state but it is my understanding he IS in fact allowed to do either one.

OrbitalEllipses · Apr 20, 2015

He is. He's being chickenshit. All the wording is in the law itself. He can't legally provide you with a standard capacity magazine > 10 rounds, but HE as a license-holder can receive them for sale outside of the state or in the state provided they are modified to ten rounds.

erwos · Apr 20, 2015

Notably, however, he cannot sell them to you. Your FFL can potentially get in a lot of trouble if he sends those mags to you out of state, because the sale itself took place in MD (which is illegal).

To family or friends who live out of state, not a problem.

rsj1231 · Apr 20, 2015

I know, it's very frustrating. Especially since these are not commonly found magazines at X-Ring or Trop. I told him he can offer them for sale and transfer outside of the state or modify them to 10 rounds before transferring in state but he wants proof in the form of a document since the licensing division told him he cannot do either via phone call.

NateIU10 · Apr 20, 2015

https://www.mdsp.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=qpNilFPOYro=&tabid=961&mid=2922

rsj1231 · Apr 20, 2015

Thanks erwos, I will provide him that option and see what he says. I have family in neighboring states that can accept these.

rsj1231 · Apr 20, 2015

Perfect, thanks Nate! That's exactly what I was searching for. Apparently my Google and board searching skills are inferior.

NateIU10 · Apr 20, 2015

rsj1231 said:
Perfect, thanks Nate! That's exactly what I was searching for. Apparently my Google and board searching skills are inferior.

No problem. You can also have the dealer shoot me an email at Nate@engagearmament.com or give me a call at the shop tomorrow if he has any other questions/reservations.

rsj1231 · Apr 20, 2015

Excellent, I will pass along your information is he doesn't comply. Thanks again!

deesly1 · Apr 20, 2015

Another way to do it is Have the FFL send the Magazines out of State C.O.D. (The Cash on Delivery will prove that is was an out of state sale.) If this is a violation of the law then someone explain how you can purchase over the internet and ship to another state. Are you saying that the sale was made in MD over the net? If so how can that be proven?

The Shooter · Apr 20, 2015

deesly1 said:
Another way to do it is Have the FFL send the Magazines out of State C.O.D. (The Cash on Delivery will prove that is was an out of state sale.) If this is a violation of the law then someone explain how you can purchase over the internet and ship to another state. Are you saying that the sale was made in MD over the net? If so how can that be proven?

When you buy online the sale is taking place in the state the seller/ website is based out of. Which is why you only pay taxes on items you buy online if the seller/ website is based out of the same state the buyer is.

rockstarr · Apr 21, 2015

the fuddy duddy question is how much money are FFL's making off standard magazines that come with the firearms that they *aren't allowed* to give you ...

edited to be more clear

HappyCamper · Apr 21, 2015

rockstarr said:
the fuddy duddy question is how much money are FFL's making off standard magazines that come with the firearms that they don't give you ...

So it's the FFL that's the bad guy? Are you suggesting they break the law and give them to you? Or spend extra time modifying the mags to make them compliant? Or ship them out of state to an address you give them which is illegal? What exactly do you think they should do with them then? MAybe just throw them in the dumpster out back? Or give you money back? Pffft... Not the FFLs fault.

rockstarr · Apr 21, 2015

I didn't suggest any of that, you came up with all of that on your own.

It was just a statement/question.

Now if you would like my thoughts on it, It would be nice to be provided with a decent quality replacement that is the legal capacity and not a 1.50 flea market special.

Or in the case that no magazine is provided at all, A small credit to the sale of the fire arm would be nice as well (since they are going to make money off of the magazines you cant have), instead of a here is your rifle/ pistol, Let me know how it fires once you find a magazine.

Didn't say anyone is at "fault"

Boom Boom · Apr 21, 2015

rsj1231 said:
Perfect, thanks Nate! That's exactly what I was searching for. Apparently my Google and board searching skills are inferior.

Note that FFL mag mods are expected to be permanent, meaning there's no easy way for you to convert it back when you get home.

OrbitalEllipses · Apr 21, 2015

Boom Boom said:
Note that FFL mag mods are expected to be permanent, meaning there's no easy way for you to convert it back when you get home.

And that's in the law or in COMAR and you have a citation to prove it right?

HappyCamper · Apr 21, 2015

rockstarr said:
I didn't suggest any of that, you came up with all of that on your own.

It was just a statement/question.

Now if you would like my thoughts on it, It would be nice to be provided with a decent quality replacement that is the legal capacity and not a 1.50 flea market special.

Or in the case that no magazine is provided at all, A small credit to the sale of the fire arm would be nice as well (since they are going to make money off of the magazines you cant have), instead of a here is your rifle/ pistol, Let me know how it fires once you find a magazine.

Didn't say anyone is at "fault"

Yeah, not meaning to come across harsh, just thinking of the impact to the FFL. And I brainstorm a lot. Shoulda added a

lol...

Most distributors that sell to the FFL won't him any credit/discount whether they give him mags or not. Same price for the gun with or without the mags. If it comes with them, he can't sell them locally and has to list them out of state, which depending on the mag, the small profit might not even be worth the time to do it. If the buyer is expecting mags with the gun the FFL then spends money to try and get something MD compliant, which, depending on the platform, a lot of buyers would ditch shortly afterwards or never use and buy standard cap mags anyway. And sometimes a higher quality reduced capacity mag will cost the FFL MORE than the standard one...

If the gun never came with mags in the first place then go back to the last paragraph starting at "If the buyer..." except now the MD complaint mags are fully the cost burden of the FFL and the cost of the rifle would go up accordingly, which the buyer probably would bitch about.

I am completely happy with an FFL selling rifles without any mags and if the buyer wants MD compliant ones, then the FFL can order you some, but I for one have zero interest in non-standard capacity mags. I have no issue with the FFL making a few extra bucks selling the mags if it then lets them make some $ and get some more cool stuff in for my next visit, or get them a little more $ in their pocket to take the kids bowling. I just don't like the idea of putting the burden of it all on the FFL. FFLs are already dealing with a ton of shit due to the BS in MD and people bitch and moan that they are getting charged more and more. Well, guess what... you want your FFL to do more for you, then it will cost you more, just like any other business. Customer service is always important, but it works both ways... You treat your FFL right and they will treat you right. :thumbsup:

Boom Boom · Apr 21, 2015

OrbitalEllipses said:
And that's in the law or in COMAR and you have a citation to prove it right?

Post #5 might prove helpful to you.

Kilroy · Apr 22, 2015

rockstarr said:
the fuddy duddy question is how much money are FFL's making off standard magazines that come with the firearms that they don't give you ...

Same as with those $65+ transfer fees. A LOT more than they'd be making if this was a free state.

rico903 · Apr 22, 2015

Kilroy said:
Same as with those $65+ transfer fees. A LOT more than they'd be making if this was a free state.

I remember when the MSP published the 1996 bulletin. It specifically says a dealer may not charge more than $20 for a secondary transfer yet I've never seen a dealer obey that. Not that I blame them. But I wonder if anyone ever challenged that.

FFL's can modify mags prior to sale - ship them to free state

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