Magazines are expendables!

Erick · May 25, 2015

Discuss:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Qd4-8GJAk

Russ D · May 25, 2015

In a life and death scenerio everything is expendable that helps me live to see another day. In a controlled scenerio where you are tactical reloading so you always have a full mag it may be possible to store swapped mags in case you run low. Otherwise they stay were they drop in a full on fire fight.

Boom Boom · May 25, 2015

You can only use them once.

Pretoria78 · May 25, 2015

For AR's, once mine start compromising reliability, they get tossed.

jimbobborg · May 25, 2015

They're expendable until they're not. Unless you have a safe full of magazines, you're going to miss the ones you pitched at some point. AR mags, pistol mags, whatever, next time a mag ban gets mentioned, you'll realize how precious they can be.

K31 · May 25, 2015

jimbobborg said:
They're expendable until they're not. Unless you have a safe full of magazines, you're going to miss the ones you pitched at some point. AR mags, pistol mags, whatever, next time a mag ban gets mentioned, you'll realize how precious they can be.

But if popular culture has taught us anything it's that if you're out of ammo you are to throw your empty gun at your adversaries.

Therefore, no need to save mags either.

TxAggie · May 25, 2015

Two words:

Mag flips.

http://youtu.be/OEEEy1dMceI

Jimbob2.0 · May 25, 2015

In combat terms its true, why do you think G3 mags are built cheap and expendable?

In practical/training terms no.

HOWEVER we must realize that the original mags for ARs etc. were made for short life, then toss. This is why you stock-up, even under training terms, every mag has a lifespan and in modern western arms it isn't likely very long.

When the rabid, frothing at the mouth antis get what they want, which is a ban or better yet NFA without grandfather for any mag over 5rds, you will be glad to have extras.

Sharp · May 26, 2015

Jimbob2.0 said:
In combat terms its true, why do you think G3 mags are built cheap and expendable?

In practical/training terms no.

HOWEVER we must realize that the original mags for ARs etc. were made for short life, then toss. This is why you stock-up, even under training terms, every mag has a lifespan and in modern western arms it isn't likely very long.

When the rabid, frothing at the mouth antis get what they want, which is a ban or better yet NFA without grandfather for any mag over 5rds, you will be glad to have extras.

Every piece of equipment has a lifespan, and it all depends on what it was designed for and how much the contracting customers were willing to pay for it. Initially, expendable magazines were seen as an extraordinary waste of materials and money. En bloc or stripper clips, however, were cheap enough to be discarded. It took a long time for some countries to get past that viewpoint.

TheBert · May 26, 2015

Erick said:
Discuss:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Qd4-8GJAk

Ammo cans, clips, magazines and brass are all expendable on a battle field.

Train the way you will fight.

kalister1 · May 26, 2015

K31 said:
But if popular culture has taught us anything it's that if you're out of ammo you are to throw your empty gun at your adversaries.

Therefore, no need to save mags either.

Only at Superman, the bullets bounce off, SO, the gun must hurt him?

Most people number their Magazines. When one fails, it goes.

Erick · May 26, 2015

TheBert said:
Ammo cans, clips, magazines and brass are all expendable on a battle field.

Train the way you will fight.

Thanks!! Thats exactly the point I am trying to make.
Some more comments (not directed at you)

So I would like to chew through this a bit more:

Train as you fight means train our weapons system for a fight (yes a fight!) in the way it was designed for.
Not squirrel hinting etc..

From training environments we are used to 2 unrealistic things:

- taking the time to put the mag away , when in an emergency reload you simply dont spend the 1- 1.5 seconds that this takes for most.

- From training we are conditioned w/ the expectation that we will be able to police up our mags.
However real world this is only possible if you won the firefight and so own the battlefield after the fight.

What this video showed was folks training with a realistic attitude and attempting to gain fire superiority.
this means you will leave your mags in the battle field which is the point this video makes.
"if you train properly you will leave mags behind. And oh by the way same things happens in an actual firefight"

With out fire superiority you will generally lose the fight and than a) you wont get to go back to the battle field to get your mags and b) you and your buddies might be dead and you won't need them.

Good discussion gents!

OrbitalEllipses · May 26, 2015

Conversely, if you do reach the point where you do need to deploy the weapons system for real, won't your mags be precious? e.g. you no longer have access to your stash, you have bugged out or similar.

In a grab whatever you can carry situation, we're talking what, 8 mags on the chest rig tops and maybe a few in your bug out bag?

Traveler · May 26, 2015

I am reclaiming my mags once the firefight is done if at all safe.

lx1x · May 26, 2015

Traveler said:
I am reclaiming my mags once the firefight is done if at all safe.

You just need to learn reloads with retention (idpa style)..

Lol

Pretoria78 · May 26, 2015

jimbobborg said:
They're expendable until they're not. Unless you have a safe full of magazines, you're going to miss the ones you pitched at some point. AR mags, pistol mags, whatever, next time a mag ban gets mentioned, you'll realize how precious they can be.

That's true, and this illustrates why it's prudent to stock up while the supply is plentiful and prices are low. I'm not advocating being frivolous and wasteful with regard to disposing of mags, but if you've got a 25 y/o USGI mag with bent feed lips that doesn't feed reliably, might be time to toss it.

photoracer · May 26, 2015

As a competition shooter any mag that fails even once gets put away or tossed. And put away in this case means if it has a visibly repairable or rebuildable issue you keep it. Trouble is its hard to trust that one again. As in life or a match a mag that screws up can cost you more than just a bad stage time. I buy way more mags than I intend to use. Test the number I need to use that function 100% and put the extras away to use as spares if one of the original set goes bad.

Erick · May 26, 2015

OrbitalEllipses said:
Conversely, if you do reach the point where you do need to deploy the weapons system for real, won't your mags be precious? e.g. you no longer have access to your stash, you have bugged out or similar.

In a grab whatever you can carry situation, we're talking what, 8 mags on the chest rig tops and maybe a few in your bug out bag?

This is a key point of a legitimate arguement and certainly tempers the "expendable" arguement.

Even so and even in a SHTF environment where mags are precious..

I rather lose half my mag stash than get shot in the chest ( or even arm) etc because our team failed to gain fire superiority since we were all worried about mag retention...

outrider58 · May 26, 2015

The M-16 USGI mag was intended as a use once and dump issue originally. Having never been in a firefight, I guess it would depend on the ferocity of the fight. I do have a dump pouch for tactical reloads and since I don't have Uncle Sugar to rely on for refit, I would try to hang on to as many as I could.

jimbobborg · May 26, 2015

outrider58 said:
The M-16 USGI mag was intended as a use once and dump issue originally. Having never been in a firefight, I guess it would depend on the ferocity of the fight. I do have a dump pouch for tactical reloads and since I don't have Uncle Sugar to rely on for refit, I would try to hang on to as many as I could.

USGI mags have come a long way since the 1960s. With the advent of plastic mags, bent feed lips and crushed side walls are a thing of the past.

Magazines are expendables!

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