Magazines are expendables!

Erick · May 28, 2015

outrider58 said:
The vid I saw was an aftermath vid. I saw no action on that video. For the record.

That was the point of the video.. to show how many mags are left are on the ground after a squad size element reacst-to-contact and peels away executed a group of folks doing proper emergency reloads.

This drives home the lesson how we will lose mags rapidly when we ever use these rifles for what they are designed for.

Hence the need to own/store lots of mags.

Armati · May 28, 2015

True story:

We have learned a lot from 14 years of continuous war.

For the DoD mags are considered "expendable" for logistical purposes.

In actual combat, much less so.

LOGPACs frequently contain ammunition but contain mags much less often. Frequently mags are a PITA to procure in theater, AND, ground combat troops tend to be a bit superstitious about their mags. They want THEIR mags back.

SOF has had dump pouches for years. The USMC has been issuing dump pouches for a few years now. Other conventional Army units will often have them or certainly allow troops to use their own.

Are mags expendable? Yes, but be mentally prepared that you may short a mag or two that you would really rather have.

Most guys I know will have 7-8 mags at the ready with another 3-6 mags in their GTS bag.

Armati · May 28, 2015

Erick said:
Discuss:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Qd4-8GJAk

One PS:

This looks like a civilian class - not a .mil training exercise.

outrider58 · May 29, 2015

Armati said:
One PS:

This looks like a civilian class - not a .mil training exercise.

Could also be 'non-conventional' forces training. GB, SEALs, D-boys, etc.

Doobie · May 29, 2015

clandestine said:
All actions have consequences. In a SHTF scenario, as a civilian without logistical support you train to retain your gear unless safety dictates otherwise.

Unless you are in a rush to reload your firearm, then practicing retention is important in your training.

Some people wear too much gear and that slows them down more than a retention reload will. Some people cant get in and out of a vehicle, or get up off the ground because their gear is setup wrong, too bulky, or heavy. Some try to carry a million mags and have expended all of their energy humping gear that is not necessary and probably had to remove food, water, and other essentials to make up for the massive ammo loadout. On the other side of the coin you dont want to have too little ammo either.

IMHO, having a boutique Rifle or proprietary weapon like a Gas Piston AR is a massive handicap. Machines break and you better have a "common machine" (AK/AR) when the internet is not available, currency crashes, gunsmiths are in short supply, and gun stores are not an option.

Is there a thread that discusses a good vest/vest setup? This darn Kindle wont allow me to utilize the search feature :mad54:

mopar92 · May 29, 2015

Doobie said:
Is there a thread that discusses a good vest/vest setup? This darn Kindle wont allow me to utilize the search feature

Here
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=171643&highlight=battle+belt

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=145168&highlight=battle+belt

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=44171&highlight=battle+belt

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=173160&highlight=chest+rig

Erick · May 30, 2015

Armati said:
One PS:

This looks like a civilian class - not a .mil training exercise.

Absolutely.

Most of us on here are civilians (I just ETSed 10 weeks ago myself) and it is civilian 1st defenders employing tactical rifles this discussion was intended for, as they greatly outnumber active duty .mil on this site.

My apologies if some folks misunderstood,.... due to the nature of the membership I tacitly understood this to be the underlying standard of our discussion.

IMO the vid shows real well, to civilian 1st defenders that when you are in the situation you may actually have to use your tactical rifles that you will be bleeding magazines via emergency reloads as you struggle to gain fire superiority.
(Especially when unlike the common square range training you can't pick up mags when you dont own the battlefield after the engagement)

And therefore to be prepared to buy/stash many extra mags to resupply at the ranch/homestead/BOL etc etc

When you own an AR15, if you ever want to use it as god intended, owning a basic combat load of 7 mags is simply not enough.

it seems like a trivial point, but I think the vid brought the point home very well.

I did not attend that particular class it was a Max Velocity Tactical 6 day satellite class in texas and it generated a lot of good youtube videos showing relatively untrained civilians progressing from raw meat to folks that were becoming difficult to distinguish in their actions from active combat arms personnel.

Ranger School it is not but the training progression that can be observed was nothing short of amazing.

When it comes down to it of course light infantry tactics are not rocket science.. we teach 'em to 18 yr old soldiers who are busy thinking about booze, ***** and burgers as they sit in the bleachers while we're trying to impart knowledge.

I think the average civilian who goes to a class on his own time and dime pays a LOT more attention and so learns a LOT faster than our AIT trainees.

outrider58 · May 30, 2015

Definitely good thread and good info. Thanks Erik!

jimbobborg · May 30, 2015

I just finished watching the actual video, so here goes. During the situation shown, dropping mags and leaving would be appropriate if those being ambushed lacked dump bags for empty magazines. My question about the video, now that I saw the whole thing and got some background on the scenario is, why would you ride up to a roadblock like that without someone behind running overwatch?

Erick · May 30, 2015

jimbobborg said:
I just finished watching the actual video, so here goes. During the situation shown, dropping mags and leaving would be appropriate if those being ambushed lacked dump bags for empty magazines. My question about the video, now that I saw the whole thing and got some background on the scenario is, why would you ride up to a roadblock like that without someone behind running overwatch?

I believe their scenario was driving in convoy and then getting fire from the flank:

-One or more vehicle(s) immobilized.
-Peel out to the working vehicle(s) while returning fire.
-Crossdeck
-Exfil

It was not approaching a roadblock.

I understand also did another scenario which involved getting all their vehicles immobilized and getting pinned down by a superior force and being relieved by local community QRF (in soft skinned 4x4s) who went after the attackers from the flank w/ fire and maneuver

Erick · Jun 6, 2015

On this note...: just FYI, Botach Tactical has a sale on HK 30 rds transparent mags for 10 bucks each!!!!!

JasonB · Jun 7, 2015

Erick said:
On this note...: just FYI, Botach Tactical has a sale on HK 30 rds transparent mags for 10 bucks each!!!!!

That's great if you never want to get your order.

Erick · Jun 9, 2015

JasonB said:
That's great if you never want to get your order.

Huh?

I just got my 1st orders and ordered another ten.
This is the first of many Botach orders I had.

The shipping tends to be a bit slow but it is free.... :thumbsup:

JasonB · Jun 9, 2015

Botach has a reputation for selling products they don't have and then canceling orders.

Vile Shadow · Jun 9, 2015

JasonB said:
Botach has a reputation for selling products they don't have and then canceling orders.

Let one of those orders not get cancelled once. Then you'd have what is called "fraud". :cool:

outrider58 · Jun 9, 2015

Just ordered one of their reaction rods...came in a week...free shipping. No problemo.

Doctor_M · Jun 10, 2015

clandestine said:
...Machines break and you better have a "common machine" (AK/AR) when the internet is not available, currency crashes, gunsmiths are in short supply, and gun stores are not an option.

You sir, have your own room designated on the Dr.M. compound when the balloon goes up... I've always wanted my own gunsmith. Do you eat much?

outrider58 · Jun 10, 2015

Doctor_M said:
You sir, have your own room designated on the Dr.M. compound when the balloon goes up... I've always wanted my own gunsmith. Do you eat much?

Not a problem for you Dr. M. Just throw a NY style pizza in his cubical every now and then.

clandestine · Jun 10, 2015

Doctor_M said:
You sir, have your own room designated on the Dr.M. compound when the balloon goes up... I've always wanted my own gunsmith. Do you eat much?

Im always willing to entertain offers

outrider58 said:
Not a problem for you Dr. M. Just throw a NY style pizza in his cubical every now and then.

Kagetsu · Jun 11, 2015

Erick said:
Hence the need to own/store lots of mags.

If I'm understanding this right. In conflict with a superior force. Figure everything is disposable. Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq,, Shoot till you're overrun,,, drop everything and keep shouting you're a peasant that just wants to have children and raise goats. Then run to the next weapons cache.

Magazines are expendables!

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