Any Difference between "AR6721" and "RFA3-PCAR-16"?

earthprime · Nov 9, 2014

Aside from the manufacturers (Colt and DPMS), weight, and Magpul sights (Colt), is there any major difference between these two rifles? To me they're the same, just the DPMS is a cheaper version of the Colt:

AR6721:
http://www.colt.com/Catalog/LawEnforcement/Products/ColtTacticalCarbine.aspx

RFA3-PCAR-16:
http://www.dpmsinc.com/PANTHER-CARBINE-16-RFA3_ep_212-1.html

Scott7891 · Nov 11, 2014

earthprime said:
Aside from the manufacturers (Colt and DPMS), weight, and Magpul sights (Colt), is there any major difference between these two rifles? To me they're the same, just the DPMS is a cheaper version of the Colt:

AR6721:
http://www.colt.com/Catalog/LawEnforcement/Products/ColtTacticalCarbine.aspx

RFA3-PCAR-16:
http://www.dpmsinc.com/PANTHER-CARBINE-16-RFA3_ep_212-1.html

I am not much of an AR guy but I can tell you now from all the threads here the difference is night and day.

The Colt is milspec like what the military uses so it will be much better quality, more durable, reliable, and better parts interchangeability. It is something you could go to war with and depend your life upon if the situation ever arises.

The DPMS is lower quality, not milspec meaning it lacks the quality and parts interchangeability with other AR parts, and is seen primarily as a range toy.

The Colt also has a 1/7 barrel twist meaning it can shoot any grain of 5.56 under the sun but prefers 62 gr. or heavier for better accuracy. With the DPMS 1/9 barrel you are limiting yourself to the type of ammo you can use.

Hope this helps.

erwos · Nov 11, 2014

Scott7891 said:
I am not much of an AR guy but I can tell you now from all the threads here the difference is night and day.

Night and day? They're both ARs. They function exactly the same. The differences are subtle, and will only, maybe, reveal themselves over time and very heavy use.

The DPMS is lower quality, not milspec meaning it lacks the quality and parts interchangeability with other AR parts, and is seen primarily as a range toy.

What parts do you think are non-interchangeable with the Colt? DPMS doesn't have the greatest QC in the world, but they're not THAT bad. Also, neither of these guns is "mil-spec" by any sane definition, unless you've seen the military purchasing AR6721s.

The Colt also has a 1/7 barrel twist meaning it can shoot any grain of 5.56 under the sun but prefers 62 gr. or heavier for better accuracy. With the DPMS 1/9 barrel you are limiting yourself to the type of ammo you can use.

1:9 is perfectly fine for shooting SS109/M855, and is more accurate with M193 than 1:7. The only time 1:7 will help is when shooting > 69gr bullets or M855 tracers, neither of which is really a standard use case.

The real reason you should go with the Colt is that it holds resale value better, and is at historically cheap prices. I've seen police trade-ins for like $900, which is astounding compared to what they went for even pre-last-panic.

Z_Man · Nov 11, 2014

it really comes down to the price difference you see where you are purchasing it, and what you want out of your rifle. the colt will keep value for as long as you keep it, while most people dismiss DPMS as a step above garbage. The DPMS that you linked does not have a chrome lined barrel, and is 4140 chromemoly, mil spec is 4150. the COLT barrel is chrome lined and 4150 steel.

most HBAR barrels are 1:9 twist, and both the DPMS and the Colt have the same twist rate (just fyi scott)

the DPMS bolt carrier group isn't bad, but i cannot find any information on what its made of, mil spec is carpenter 158 steel. i can tell you the bolt carrier is chrome lined on the DPMS but that is all i can say about it.

you can find a colt 6721 for $936 at buds gun shop
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...s_id/411555276/Colt+AR6721+16"+HBAR+A3+5.56mm

you can get the DPMS for $758 at budsgunshop
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_793/products_id/712005652

not to throw a wrench in your plans, but there is another option that seems to fit in the middle. the Windham weaponry HBAR is a milspec gun and you aren't paying for the colt name.

it is $875 at buds, but a few of the IPs have them, and have advertised them cheaper (i think one had it for 800 and one for 850, cannot remember who was offering them)

then the other option if you don't mind a used gun Lou at shooters discount has the colt 6721 for 799.95 if you don't mind a police trade in.

the next rifle i am going to buy will most likely be the Windham weaponry.

erwos · Nov 11, 2014

Z_Man said:
then the other option if you don't mind a used gun Lou at shooters discount has the colt 6721 for 799.95 if you don't mind a police trade in.

This is the option I'd pick if I were in the market for an HBAR. One time drive to Mt Airy, and you've got a real deal Colt for $800 plus sales tax.

earthprime · Nov 11, 2014

Z_Man, do you have a link for the he Windham weaponry HBAR?

Scott7891 · Nov 11, 2014

erwos said:
Night and day? They're both ARs. They function exactly the same. The differences are subtle, and will only, maybe, reveal themselves over time and very heavy use.

That is my point with a little hyperbole that I added. Depending on how much he intends to shoot it or use it should determine which one he buys.

What parts do you think are non-interchangeable with the Colt? DPMS doesn't have the greatest QC in the world, but they're not THAT bad. Also, neither of these guns is "mil-spec" by any sane definition, unless you've seen the military purchasing AR6721s.

DPMS uses a different front site not the standard F meaning you eliminate a great deal of rear site bases if he wants to change that out.

DPMS uses a commercial buffer tube again eliminating what kind of buttstocks he can use.

AFAIK DPMS uses a different lower/upper pin system not interchangeable with others.

Z_Man said:
most HBAR barrels are 1:9 twist, and both the DPMS and the Colt have the same twist rate (just fyi scott)

Wrong

From the DPMS link: Twist 1x9

From the Colt link: 1/7 RH

Vile Shadow · Nov 11, 2014

My wife and I both have Colt HBARs, and both are 1:9 barrels.

Z_Man · Nov 12, 2014

Scott7891 said:
Wrong

From the DPMS link: Twist 1x9

From the Colt link: 1/7 RH

the colt link has the 1/7 RH listed under the 6720, you have to scroll down futher under technical specs to see the 6721, which is heavy barrel, 1/9 RH.

the 6720 (standard profile) and the 6721 (heavy profile) share the webpage description.

the link for the windahm is below

https://www.windhamweaponry.com/pdf/NewTechSeets/HBC 12-17-12 MSRP.pdf

ericoak · Nov 12, 2014

Z_Man said:
the colt link has the 1/7 RH listed under the 6720, you have to scroll down futher under technical specs to see the 6721, which is heavy barrel, 1/9 RH.

the 6720 (standard profile) and the 6721 (heavy profile) share the webpage description.

the link for the windahm is below

https://www.windhamweaponry.com/pdf/NewTechSeets/HBC 12-17-12 MSRP.pdf

Yep.

aquaman · Nov 12, 2014

DPMS is made of the cheapest metals they can get away with. Go with Colt from Lou, $800 is deal

erwos · Nov 12, 2014

aquaman said:
DPMS is made of the cheapest metals they can get away with.

Demonstrably untrue. Their BC is 8620 and their bolt is C158. Their receivers are made from 7075-T6. About the only serious complaints these days is that they sometimes have non-chromed barrels and use commercial spec buffer tubes.

Z_Man · Nov 12, 2014

commercial spec buffer tube and using 4140 steel in the barrel and it not being chrome lined are the only non milspec parts of a standard DPMS rifle..

now my cheap DPMS sportical.... well i have a few complaints... and it has nothing to do with the barrel the BCG or the commercial spec buffer tube. its that stupid railed gas block... that thing will not stay put...

as far as the rifles listed by the OP, unless you are able to get that DPMS for say ~$650 bucks... grab a new windahm or a used colt for ~$800 bucks. i like the windham cuz it comes with a detachable carry handle.

chromed barrel will last longer than a non chromed bore, combine that with the 4140 instead of 4150 steel and you have a barrel that has a shorter life (theoretically).

the DPMS rifle is of lesser materials in the barrel department, but it is not a pice of garbage by any means

aquaman · Nov 13, 2014

erwos said:
Demonstrably untrue. Their BC is 8620 and their bolt is C158. Their receivers are made from 7075-T6. About the only serious complaints these days is that they sometimes have non-chromed barrels and use commercial spec buffer tubes.

BS.

show me where they use c158 bolts, even if you could show me I wouldn't believe it. I have no doubt they would lie about it to salvage their shitty reputation

not only that but they don't use 7075 extensions

earthprime · Nov 13, 2014

For the Windham Weaponry HBC (R16A4T), does the rear-sight also detach with the carry handle, or is it fixed?

erwos · Nov 13, 2014

aquaman said:
show me where they use c158 bolts, even if you could show me I wouldn't believe it. I have no doubt they would lie about it to salvage their shitty reputation

Call them up and ask. Oh, wait, you've decided that your mind is made up and no amount of facts and logic will change it!

As for the extension being 6061 vs 7075... well, true, but totally irrelevant. Both of them are gonna get screwed up if you buttstroke someone, and in both cases, your stock latch is steel and will rip right through them.

aquaman · Nov 13, 2014

erwos said:
Call them up and ask. Oh, wait, you've decided that your mind is made up and no amount of facts and logic will change it!

As for the extension being 6061 vs 7075... well, true, but totally irrelevant. Both of them are gonna get screwed up if you buttstroke someone, and in both cases, your stock latch is steel and will rip right through them.

You know for a guy with lots of high end toys I'm surprised you carry water for DPMS. :shrug:

I had one once, got it in a trade with a fde glock. Thought I would keep it, long story short out of spec upper.

erwos · Nov 13, 2014

aquaman said:
You know for a guy with lots of high end toys I'm surprised you carry water for DPMS.

I don't carry water for DPMS. I carry water for truth. And while I'm fine with tarring a company for its misdeeds, I'm not so fine with tarring it for invented imaginary problems.

I had one once, got it in a trade with a fde glock. Thought I would keep it, long story short out of spec upper.

I thought I had made it clear that I felt their QA had problems. Question, though: when was this upper made?

aquaman · Nov 13, 2014

erwos said:
I don't carry water for DPMS. I carry water for truth. And while I'm fine with tarring a company for its misdeeds, I'm not so fine with tarring it for invented imaginary problems.

I thought I had made it clear that I felt their QA had problems. Question, though: when was this upper made?

Im not sure, this happened in early 2012.

Z_Man · Nov 13, 2014

earthprime said:
For the Windham Weaponry HBC (R16A4T), does the rear-sight also detach with the carry handle, or is it fixed?

the sight is part of the carry handle, and removes with it, and you will have a flat top upper identical to the Colt upper, minus the Magpul back up sight.

Any Difference between "AR6721" and "RFA3-PCAR-16"?

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