AR-15: M4 or A2 or A4 profile

echo6mike · Jun 17, 2014

Well. Between PSA throwing deals at me every week and now this from Midway:

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?promo...-_-specials-_-specials_20140617_1-_-AdBlock01

Del-Ton carbine kits, any opinions?

Sub-$500 is possible for my budget, but I might want to piece things out.

How are the triggers and other sections of the Del-Tons? I can't search well on the mobile here...

Calengor · Jun 17, 2014

You can do a lot better than a Del-Ton. Not for that price, probably, but it's not considered high quality.

echo6mike · Jun 17, 2014

Calengor said:
You can do a lot better than a Del-Ton. Not for that price, probably, but it's not considered high quality.

Thanks, that's all I needed - thought I'd heard they were "okayish but not great"...

Calengor · Jun 17, 2014

Like someone else said, what's your overall budget? And did you decide on Carbine or Rifle?

echo6mike · Jun 17, 2014

Ah yes - update here.

I decided to go with a carbine build. I picked up a CMMG LPK on sale a couple months back, still need a stock for the lower.

For the upper I need to stay under $400 - that seems like a decent mid grade price point.

I should search or start a new thread on "carbine AR uppers under $400" - I'll look around the forums.

But with that said, here I am...

Calengor · Jun 17, 2014

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...Receiver-cosmo-p/bcm-urg-m4-14socom-cosmo.htm
This is on sale for a ridiculously good price and is quality.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Standard-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Centurion-COSMO-p/bcm-urg-mid-16-c4-12-cos.htm
With rail, $100 over your budget.

shocker998md · Jun 17, 2014

Devil,
I looked through all of this. Everyday there are Marines sending green tips out 500 yards with M16A4s. You dont need a long barrel to do it.

If you watch PSA I have been snagging up the PSA blem uppers with BCG and the midwest industries gen 2 rail and its right in the 400$ range. They are few and far between and take some time to watch for them.

If you want fixed front sight post they go for 360 with BCG and charging handle all day.

If you want a nicer rifle BCMs are nice, ive built a 14.5 upper and love it. But ive been running my PSAs for a few years now and they are good to go.

echo6mike · Jun 17, 2014

shocker998md said:
Devil,
I looked through all of this. Everyday there are Marines sending green tips out 500 yards with M16A4s. You dont need a long barrel to do it.

Good enough for me!
:party29:

shocker998md said:
If you watch PSA I have been snagging up the PSA blem uppers with BCG and the midwest industries gen 2 rail and its right in the 400$ range. They are few and far between and take some time to watch for them.

This is what I'm thinking may work - just have to decide if I want an A2 or M4 barrel profile. I've got to find those in real life to really see the difference, cuz I can't find anything online that just shows them, with dimensions and details, side by side.

On the 'puter again, time to go searching...

Calengor · Jun 17, 2014

Magnumite · Jun 17, 2014

"http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-S...ocom-cosmo.htm
This is on sale for a ridiculously good price and is quality."

Add $240 for a charging handle and a bolt-carrier group. That is the Achilles heel in many upper sales.

I've been working on a budget upper since I still consider myself fledging in AR use. I sat back and waited/watched/seized decent deals a long time. I have a compleye upper, less charging handle for $267. I had the bolt, standard handguards and willl use the charging handle out of another upper until I locate a decent used one. I do know for the cost of handguards and associated hardware one can get a decent but unventilated round free float. I will eventually get a better free float (round, I like it) but it will wait until I am done making sure what I have done is running right and I can adjust for learned preferences.

Pinecone · Jun 17, 2014

silanehead said:
Whichever you build, you're gonna want the other one too.
Just face it now. Plan on more than one.

Same thing I was thinking.

You could always build the M4 profile and then buy an A2 style HBAR.

Or vice versa.

Magnumite · Jun 17, 2014

The lighter barrels track faster from target to target when doing fast multiple target shooting.

For a steadier hold with a little more time available or multiple shots on 1 or two targets the HBAR should help out.

That said, there are very fast shooters using both.

dreadpirate · Jun 17, 2014

I use to think that you had to have a 20" barrel (for accuracy, which I now know is BS) and a long sight radius. Now I say 16 or even 14.7 barrel and use a red dot. Light, quick handling, fun to shoot.

dreadpirate · Jun 17, 2014

If I were to get a 20" - I would get an A1 "pencil" profile barrel for lighter weight. Yes it heats up more but I would rather have less weight.

echo6mike · Jun 18, 2014

Calengor, that's exactly what I was looking for - thanks!

16" M4A1 profile looks like the right balance of weight and size for me, to start. And you're all right that I'm going to end up with a short upper and a long one, I can see that now.

Then I get to decide if I just put in a rifle buffer/tube/spring or go changing those with the uppers. Funny, but I never changed the buffer tube in any M16 I was issued - armorers get fussy about that!

I've seen a few notes around here and the web that confirm the rifle buffer assembly will work fine in the carbine, won't short-stroke or anything. But maybe...

Magnumite · Jun 18, 2014

I built a carbine with a rifle buffer and tube. Never missed a beat.

Calengor · Jun 19, 2014

echo6mike said:
Calengor, that's exactly what I was looking for - thanks!

16" M4A1 profile looks like the right balance of weight and size for me, to start. And you're all right that I'm going to end up with a short upper and a long one, I can see that now.

Then I get to decide if I just put in a rifle buffer/tube/spring or go changing those with the uppers. Funny, but I never changed the buffer tube in any M16 I was issued - armorers get fussy about that!

I've seen a few notes around here and the web that confirm the rifle buffer assembly will work fine in the carbine, won't short-stroke or anything. But maybe...

Look into the VLTOR A5 system re: rifle weight buffers in carbine receiver extensions.

The M4A1 profile, which is sometimes referred to as the SOCOM profile is described as such by BCM:

The SOCOM M4 profile is a mid weight profile barrel for the M4A1 Carbine. The flats milled under the handguards are for mounting of the M203. SOCOM requested the mid profile to better handle the volume of fire from their shooters. This profile is being adopted as a new standard for the M4A1 Carbine.

echo6mike · Jun 19, 2014

Calengor said:
Look into the VLTOR A5 system re: rifle weight buffers in carbine receiver extensions.

The M4A1 profile, which is sometimes referred to as the SOCOM profile is described as such by BCM:

VLTOR looks nice! But out of my price range. Their enhanced stock assembly looks extra sweet, but would be overkill for me.

I think rifle stock for me - no need to retool it when I get around to upper #2.

rob · Jun 19, 2014

echo6mike said:
So true ^^^ !!

If only I'd planned better and bought more lowers pre-ban, I wouldn't even have this decision!

But I only gots the one, so ... I'm going to have to find a friend with a good long range and a 16" "modern shorty" I can feed, see how it feels.

Great pointers and advice from everyone, by the way, keep 'em coming!

Muchas gracias...

Easy solution -

Build your pre-ban lower into an m4-gery as your fun/hd gun.

Buy an HBAR in an A2 configuration w/ a 20in barrel for the range.

You may want to look into MD Rifle Club at AGC. AGC has a service rifle league with a bunch of matches. If you think you want to get into service rifle competition, hold off on buying your HBAR until after you find out what you want for competition.

PM me if you want more info....

Rob

rob · Jun 19, 2014

I am a fan of AIM Surplus. They usually have good deals on stuff. Just be sure you know what you are buying. FYI: RGuns is crap. I have pick up decent parts at a great price.

Rob

AR-15: M4 or A2 or A4 profile

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