travismxi
Active Member
- Nov 14, 2010
- 207
From bow hunting and shotgun hunting heavy i believe a deer will die faster with a muzzy 3 blade for the trifecta then a 1oz. slug. just what it seems like to me.
Anybody hunt deer with a .223? (AR15)
- Thread starter vin
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Russ D
Ultimate Member
Have you seen many deer hit with a .223? I've shot many deer with a 30/06 and none outwardly looked like they did more damage than some arrow shots I've seen. I'm not saying .223 is the ideal choice for everyone, but in the right hands and done correctly it can be a very effective weapon.
Russ D
Ultimate Member
Placement is everything, a 223 will be less likely to kill quickly over a slug on a shot that only damaged a vital for lack of better words. Slug kills in my experience are devastating.
RangerWillrett
Active Member
you can kill a deer with a arrow with a flint head, depending on distance of the shot with a headshot you can kill a dear with a 22.
I agree a larger caliber would be better but I know people that hunt all the time with 223
I agree a larger caliber would be better but I know people that hunt all the time with 223
Russ D
Ultimate Member
It's all about how much energy you dump into the vitals. Every shot is different, but a 70 grain Barnes TSX properly placed traveling at 3000 FPS will expand and dump a whole lot of energy into a deer, which in itself is a relatively easy animal to kill. Whether it is more or less than a slug isn't really important. What's important is that it's plenty to kill a deer quickly. Sometimes heavier caliber bullets fail to expand properly and in turn do not do as much damage as smaller ones. The most devastating wounds I've seen on deer were from 95 grain Winchester X .243 shoulder shots. Also with shot placement being paramount I don't know anyone who can shoot a slug gun as accurately as a well built small caliber rifle/AR.
I won't argue that either. Usually with most kills in my experience twitching, gasping or trembling are not uncommon. Hit em in the backbone they go down on the spot but their mouth gasp.....or so it looks like. A .243 shot head on just collapsed it's 4 legs and there was no blink, twitch or trembling. It took everything out of it on the spot in a micro second.
I go back to slugs on this discussion frequently because they are the least forgiving IMO, lead squirts throughout it's chest cavity. Rarely is there a 100 yard look and find involved and I don't even use them anymore since I'm all rifle for the last 15 years or so.
shrpshtrjoe
Active Member
I have taken 5 deer with the Ar and hand loaded TSX bullets 4 62 grain and 1 70 grain. All were heart lung / shots , all were 1 shot kill's , all bullet's exited. No deer ran farther than 60 -70 yds. I can't speak for other bullets but with the TSX the .223 does the job just fine..
Russ D
Ultimate Member
My experience as well.
diesel-man
Ultimate Member
- Apr 8, 2009
- 1,348
For the rest of us firearms season starts Saturday. Maybe you have crop damage permits, or maybe you should keep it under your hat?
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
My own property, love being secluded.
If nothing else, I already had this line worked up for any possible 'visitors' - "Sorry Officer, he was trespassing..."
If nothing else, I already had this line worked up for any possible 'visitors' - "Sorry Officer, he was trespassing..."
Markp
Ultimate Member
- Dec 22, 2008
- 9,392
My thoughts on .223 for deer.
Everyone agrees that .308 is a fine deer round, even at 500 yards. Everyone would agree that the venerable .30-30 round has been possibly the most popular deer rounds in history and is marginally more powerful than .223 at close range.
.223 by comparison has about the same power at 100 yards, as the .308 at 500 yards. I believe that as long as you keep your shots under 150 yards with a .223, there is no reason not to consider it.
I think it would be irresponsible to even contemplate taking deer at beyond 300 yards with this round, as it falls below 500 ft/lbs of energy with most ammo and simply is not suitable for longer shots.
Everyone agrees that .308 is a fine deer round, even at 500 yards. Everyone would agree that the venerable .30-30 round has been possibly the most popular deer rounds in history and is marginally more powerful than .223 at close range.
.223 by comparison has about the same power at 100 yards, as the .308 at 500 yards. I believe that as long as you keep your shots under 150 yards with a .223, there is no reason not to consider it.
I think it would be irresponsible to even contemplate taking deer at beyond 300 yards with this round, as it falls below 500 ft/lbs of energy with most ammo and simply is not suitable for longer shots.
Ummm, mind sharing your crack pipe with me? 30-30 is marginally better than 223????? Sorry but I will never take another one of your post seriously.
I have nothing against someone using a 223 to kill a deer with. But comparing bullets to arrows is just dumb. Arrows and bullets kill in a totally differant way.
Af_catfish
Abandon All Hope
My own property, love being secluded.
If nothing else, I already had this line worked up for any possible 'visitors' - "Sorry Officer, he was trespassing..."
Rifle hunting in Calvert is illegal, btw. As a town dweller I'm so jealous I can taste it. Nice deer.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,199
A shooting/ hunting partner has taken truckloads of deer with a .222 (not .223 ) . With a spotlight and head shots ( at the time a Mil Game Warden , assisting a Univ deer study ). In regular life he uses an '06 .
With a premium bullet , close range , and perfect placement a .223 ( or .22Hornet, or .22lr , or etc ) will kill deer. But requires all factors to be perfect , slight error , and goes downhill fast.
As an unrestricted all around rifle , I'm kinda ambivilent about 6mms.
With a premium bullet , close range , and perfect placement a .223 ( or .22Hornet, or .22lr , or etc ) will kill deer. But requires all factors to be perfect , slight error , and goes downhill fast.
As an unrestricted all around rifle , I'm kinda ambivilent about 6mms.
This is very true. When discussing bullets. You cannot compare this to arrows. It is apples and oranges.
When you look at the lethality of any projectile weapon, energy is not always what wins. In the end, it is the amount of tissue damage you can do to vital organs that puts the target down.
With bullets we look at a couple of things:
1. diameter of the projectile can play a role, because the larger the surface area that impacts the target, the more energy is transferred into the tissue. This is why hollow-point rounds are so effective. You can create a very large wound channel.
2. The weight and speed of the projectile because physics tells us that kinetic energy is a function of mass and velocity. The resulting shock waves of the projectile transferring it's energy into the tissue also does a great deal of damage. Some say that it disrupts the central nervous system, and some say it doesn't. Look at ballistic gelatin to see shock waves.
Conversely, if you have a very small diameter projectile traveling at a very high speed, it may have tremendous kinetic energy, but because of it's shape it may not be able to do much tissue damage because it can't transfer it's energy efficiently, and you get a through and through wound with a small wound channel. The .223/5.56 mm depends on the bullet yawing. If the bullet does not, it doesn't kill well. This has more to do with the construction of the bullet than anything.
Look at an arrow head (for hunting) straight on and look at a bullet straight on. Note that the arrow head has a much larger diameter. Because of the way it is constructed, there is not a lot of surface area that impacts the target. The arrow does it's damage by slicing through tissue, puncturing lungs, and blood vessels etc. You only need enough kinetic energy to get the arrowhead through the target. It is said in bow hunting that you only need 65 ft. lbs. of kinetic energy when hunting large game. A .25 auto has ~66 ft. lbs. You enjoy.
I think its safe to say everyone agrees on two things.
1. It can be done but isnt recommended and wouldnt give you the best chance of a humane kill like a .30-06 or so would.
2. Arrows kill totally different then a rifle. and both are very effective when used right.
Just a picture of a 2 blade rage exit wound i found....
1. It can be done but isnt recommended and wouldnt give you the best chance of a humane kill like a .30-06 or so would.
2. Arrows kill totally different then a rifle. and both are very effective when used right.
Just a picture of a 2 blade rage exit wound i found....
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MDMOUNTAINEER
Glock, AR, Savage Junkie
I watched about a dozen deer fall to .223 AR's this past week. None of them went farther than 50 yards, some guys are using 55gr. ballistic tip factory ammo, some are using heavier handloads. Many are head/neck shots.
Deer hunting, especially rifle hunting, is way different in WV. Most of these guys rely on their deer kills to feed their family. They almost unanimously take head or neck shots to avoid ruining any meat. Plus it anchors their kill and requires less tracking. It's a brutal, if efficient way of doing things. Most of them are using .223 AR platforms now.
Even the traditional heart/lung shots aren't going very far, and although I was hunting with a .308, I would have no qualms in using a .223 with handloads.
Deer hunting, especially rifle hunting, is way different in WV. Most of these guys rely on their deer kills to feed their family. They almost unanimously take head or neck shots to avoid ruining any meat. Plus it anchors their kill and requires less tracking. It's a brutal, if efficient way of doing things. Most of them are using .223 AR platforms now.
Even the traditional heart/lung shots aren't going very far, and although I was hunting with a .308, I would have no qualms in using a .223 with handloads.
Weber
USMC
I use my ar, but in 308.
There is a lot of information on this subject on arfcom, under the outdoor forum.
There is a lot of information on this subject on arfcom, under the outdoor forum.
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