Hbar question

Evojoeix · Jul 7, 2014

Is it legal to swap out the upper on a HBAR and keep it unregistered?

lx1x · Jul 7, 2014

nope... you just made it a banned rifle...

Evojoeix · Jul 7, 2014

Okay thank you. That's what I thought, I just kept hearing mixed answers on it and knew you guys would know :thumbsup:

mopar92 · Jul 7, 2014

Legal to do so OUTSIDE the state of Maryland.
ILLEGAL INSIDE the state boundaries.

AssMan · Jul 7, 2014

Why can't you swap one HBAR for another HBAR?

BradMacc82 · Jul 7, 2014

snallygaster said:
Why can't you swap one HBAR for another HBAR?

HBAR to HBAR is fine, HBAR to a gov't profile or LW profile is a no-go.

Reading the op's post as it's worded, it seems they were asking about refitting the HBAR into a banned configuration - which is illegal to do now in MD.

Robert1955 · Jul 7, 2014

Evojoeix said:
Is it legal to swap out the upper on a HBAR and keep it unregistered?

Yes, as long as it's another HBAR upper.

Alphabrew · Jul 7, 2014

mopar92 said:
Legal to do so OUTSIDE the state of Maryland.
ILLEGAL INSIDE the state boundaries.

Just to clarify, you can't put a non-HBAR upper on it outside MD and then bring it to MD in the banned configuration.

j8064 · Jul 7, 2014

As stated, converting an H-Bar config purchased as an H-Bar into a non-H-Bar config in Marylandistan is verboten. But here are some fun questions:

If one legally owns a pre SB281 lower (purchased as a previously regulated part) and adds an non H-Bar upper, that is OK, right?
If one legally owns a second pre SB281 lower and prefers to top that lower with an H-Bar upper that's OK too, right?
Seemingly, since the aforementioned lowers were legally acquired as previously regulated parts, swapping the uppers between the two rifles would not be a problem, right? In fact, any rifle upper placed on them would be perfectly legal, right?
Logic would say either lower mentioned above when fitted with a an H-Bar upper would then no longer be a regulated firearm (since there are no longer "regulated" long guns, rather there are "banned" long guns (specifically in certain AR configs.) Right? And, therefore, selling said (formerly regulated) lowers in an H-Bar config would then be perfectly legal. BUT! That lower was "not-disapproved" in the MD system - and they have a S/N record! So?
So, then are all pre SB281 legally acquired lowers assumed to be non-H-Bar configs?

All points to ponder. But don't dwell on them too long. They make zero sense and will make your head hurt.

:innocent0

DaemonAssassin · Jul 7, 2014

j8064 said:
As stated, converting an H-Bar config purchased as an H-Bar into a non-H-Bar config in Marylandistan is verboten. But here are some fun questions:

If one legally owns a pre SB281 lower (purchased as a previously regulated part) and adds an non H-Bar upper, that is OK, right?

If one legally owns a second pre SB281 lower and prefers to top that lower with an H-Bar upper that's OK too, right?

Seemingly, since the aforementioned lowers were legally acquired as previously regulated parts, swapping the uppers between the two rifles would not be a problem, right? In fact, any rifle upper placed on them would be perfectly legal, right?

Logic would say either lower mentioned above when fitted with a an H-Bar upper would then no longer be a regulated firearm (since there are no longer "regulated" long guns, rather there are "banned" long guns (specifically in certain AR configs.) Right? And, therefore, selling said (formerly regulated) lowers in an H-Bar config would then be perfectly legal. BUT! That lower was "not-disapproved" in the MD system - and they have a S/N record! So?

So, then are all pre SB281 legally acquired lowers assumed to be non-H-Bar configs?

All points to ponder. But don't dwell on them too long. They make zero sense and will make your head hurt.

Evojoeix · Jul 7, 2014

Yea I was talking about going from HBAR to a non-HBAR barrel. I wasn't sure how it all worked, so I was just asking because I came across a pretty good deal on a M&P15 HBAR today.

The more I think about it I'd rather have an HBAR anyway. Keep maryland government out of it. I'd only be using it for target shooting. No home defense or anything like that

Threeband · Jul 7, 2014

j8064 said:
... So, then are all pre SB281 legally acquired lowers assumed to be non-H-Bar configs? ...

I assume they are. That's what makes them Evil Black Rifles, isn't it?

Anyway, since we all made sure to build up all of our lowers into soon-to-be-banned configurations before 10/1/13 it's really not an issue, is it?

.

Evojoeix said:
...
The more I think about it I'd rather have an HBAR anyway. ...

Just as well, since an HBAR is the only AR 15 you may buy in Maryland since 10/1/13.

NateIU10 · Jul 7, 2014

DaemonAssassin said:

If you want your mind blown, think about this:

Criminal Law Article 4-301 states:

(b) “Assault long gun” means any assault weapon listed under § 5–101(r)(2) of the Public Safety Article.

Public Safety Article 5-101 states:

(r) “Regulated firearm” means:
(1) a handgun; or
(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon:
(i) American Arms Spectre da Semiautomatic carbine;
(ii) AK–47 in all forms;
(iii) Algimec AGM–1 type semi–auto;
(iv) AR 100 type semi–auto;
(v) AR 180 type semi–auto;
(vi) Argentine L.S.R. semi–auto;
(vii) Australian Automatic Arms SAR type semi–auto;
(viii) Auto–Ordnance Thompson M1 and 1927 semi–automatics;
(ix) Barrett light .50 cal. semi–auto;
(x) Beretta AR70 type semi–auto;
(xi) Bushmaster semi–auto rifle;
(xii) Calico models M–100 and M–900;
(xiii) CIS SR 88 type semi–auto;
(xiv) Claridge HI TEC C–9 carbines;
(xv) Colt AR–15, CAR–15, and all imitations except Colt AR–15 Sporter H–BAR rifle;
(xvi) Daewoo MAX 1 and MAX 2, aka AR 100, 110C, K–1, and K–2;
(xvii) Dragunov Chinese made semi–auto;
(xviii) Famas semi–auto (.223 caliber);
(xix) Feather AT–9 semi–auto;
(xx) FN LAR and FN FAL assault rifle;
(xxi) FNC semi–auto type carbine;
(xxii) F.I.E./Franchi LAW 12 and SPAS 12 assault shotgun;
(xxiii) Steyr–AUG–SA semi–auto;
(xxiv) Galil models AR and ARM semi–auto;
(xxv) Heckler and Koch HK–91 A3, HK–93 A2, HK–94 A2 and A3;
(xxvi) Holmes model 88 shotgun;
(xxvii) Avtomat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in any format;
(xxviii) Manchester Arms “Commando” MK–45, MK–9;
(xxix) Mandell TAC–1 semi–auto carbine;
(xxx) Mossberg model 500 Bullpup assault shotgun;
(xxxi) Sterling Mark 6;
(xxxii) P.A.W.S. carbine;
(xxxiii) Ruger mini–14 folding stock model (.223 caliber);
(xxxiv) SIG 550/551 assault rifle (.223 caliber);
(xxxv) SKS with detachable magazine;
(xxxvi) AP–74 Commando type semi–auto;
(xxxvii) Springfield Armory BM–59, SAR–48, G3, SAR–3, M–21 sniper rifle, M1A, excluding the M1 Garand;
(xxxviii) Street sweeper assault type shotgun;
(xxxix) Striker 12 assault shotgun in all formats;
(xl) Unique F11 semi–auto type;
(xli) Daewoo USAS 12 semi–auto shotgun;
(xlii) UZI 9mm carbine or rifle;
(xliii) Valmet M–76 and M–78 semi–auto;
(xliv) Weaver Arms “Nighthawk” semi–auto carbine; or
(xlv) Wilkinson Arms 9mm semi–auto “Terry”.

If we look to what an ALG is, it states ALGs are firearms LISTED under 5-101(r)(2). Is a copy of an enumerated firearm one that is "listed" under 5-101(r)(2)?

Evojoeix · Jul 7, 2014

Threeband said:
Just as well, since an HBAR is the only AR 15 you may buy in Maryland since 10/1/13.

Now I'm confused, you can only buy HBAR in MD? I thought you could get the others as long as they aren't on the ban list and they had to be registered

Take it easy on my lack of knowledge, I'm very new to this stuff and the stupid laws in MD

BradMacc82 · Jul 7, 2014

Oh grasshopper, it isn't quite that easy.

For AR15's - HBAR is the ONLY barrel profile you may legally buy in MD if you didn't have an AR15 in a banned configuration prior to Oct. 1st 2013.

There are no more Regulated Long Rifles in MD for sale, those are all banned now.

And don't try to apply logic to MD firearms law, it wasn't used when the laws were written.

Gmercury2000 · Jul 7, 2014

What if a rifle purchased pre 10/1 as an hbar and was converted pre 10/1 into a non hbar configuration, would that have been legal pre 10/1? Would it then be required to have been registered pre 10/1? Just for the record this question does not effect any guns I own. Just curious as is I know it's illegal post 10/1 but never saw anything about converting them pre.

Lou45 · Jul 7, 2014

Gmercury2000 said:
What if a rifle purchased pre 10/1 as an hbar and was converted pre 10/1 into a non hbar configuration, would that have been legal pre 10/1? Would it then be required to have been registered pre 10/1? Just for the record this question does not effect any guns I own. Just curious as is I know it's illegal post 10/1 but never saw anything about converting them pre.

Converting an HBAR AR15 to a non-HBAR configuration AR15 pre 10/01/13 is legal so long as the owner/convertor of the HBAR AR15 that is to be converted is at least 21 years old and is NOT prohibited from purchasing, possessing, or owning a regulated firearm, and no need to "register" that converted AR15 firearm with MSP.

RRHemi · Jul 7, 2014

NateIU10 said:
If you want your mind blown, think about this:

Criminal Law Article 4-301 states:

Public Safety Article 5-101 states:

If we look to what an ALG is, it states ALGs are firearms LISTED under 5-101(r)(2). Is a copy of an enumerated firearm one that is "listed" under 5-101(r)(2)?

My mind is blown, can you splain' your point?

anderson76 · Jul 7, 2014

NateIU10 said:
If we look to what an ALG is, it states ALGs are firearms LISTED under 5-101(r)(2). Is a copy of an enumerated firearm one that is "listed" under 5-101(r)(2)?

If the listed “assault weapon” describes an entire platform such as “AK-47 in all forms” or “Colt AR-15 . . and all imitations” – then yes, a copy of an enumerated firearm arguable falls within that which is “listed”.

Now if we are asked to answer the question of whether a sig 556 is an “assault weapon listed under § 5-101(r)(2) – then there might be something to work with.

Evojoeix · Jul 8, 2014

Wow this is much more complicated then I thought. Thanks for all the good info guys. I learn something new everyday

Hbar question

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