HPRB September 15, 2015 Meeting Thread

dblas · Sep 27, 2015

PJDiesel said:
I dont.

Please specify which members you are calling "Trolls" and "Plants"?

There's no interest on my end in slowing any progress. I could have an all but rubber stamped permit (renewal) in my hands in 30 days flat if I wanted. I don't think LR or Schipperke are trolling.

Eloborate please.

You're far from a Troll or Plant PJ, relax, you're GTG.

Klunatic · Sep 27, 2015

I just got a hens tooth in the mail today, but it is a restricted permit for use while conducting business. How do I go about getting in the queue for the review board to get it unrestricted?

montoya32 · Sep 27, 2015

Klunatic said:
I just got a hens tooth in the mail today, but it is a restricted permit for use while conducting business. How do I go about getting in the queue for the review board to get it unrestricted?

You have 10 days to appeal. Send a certified letter to the address on the letter that accompanied your permit.

BTW, congrats!

Schipperke · Sep 28, 2015

My thought is the only way Maryland legitimizes issuing to business owners vs everyone is issuing with the restrictions. If restrictions can be overturned by a business owner, the "during business only" , how then is Maryland going to justify not issuing to non business owners?

ironpony · Sep 28, 2015

Is there a large backlog of appeals? I don't recall there being a way to see if things are speeding up and no discernible methodology to who is next. Would expedience just require more meetings.
This could meter one type of progress.

Congrats klunatic

PJDiesel · Sep 28, 2015

More and longer meetings. Along with less KNOWN prohibited persons appealing. Sounds to me like half of the meetings are wasted on that.

Schipperke · Sep 28, 2015

LoneRanger said:
Progress is in the eye of the beholder......the only progress I'm seeing is progress towards more gun restrictions.

I'm sure some of the apply/deny/appeal group have good intentions....but as Edison said.....“A good intention, with a bad approach, often leads to a poor result"

National carry has certainly come a long way. When Illinois went from zero to shall issue, was anyone else shocked, and we here in Maryland, nothing. I've thrown money at it for years. All the pro 2A activists here, I don't care what you do, do whatever you want. The idea someone writes people here are trying to stifle gun rights is F'n comical. We live within borders that are filled with ~ 6 million that are demographically and politically per capita like nowhere else. That is the problem. Those in the boonie counties don't see that. How many public ranges in Montgomery? One? I could walk in anytime and get a lane, crappy service and one of the few that were not LEO. The two new ranges in Frederick are interesting, lets see how viable they are in a couple years.

ironpony said:
Is there a large backlog of appeals? I don't recall there being a way to see if things are speeding up and no discernible methodology to who is next. Would expedience just require more meetings.
This could meter one type of progress.

Congrats klunatic

Someone posted some statute on time limits. Problem is, try suing government to comply. Takes someone who really has to have a permit to cough up money and litigate.

DC-W · Sep 28, 2015

PJDiesel said:
More and longer meetings. Along with less KNOWN prohibited persons appealing. Sounds to me like half of the meetings are wasted on that.

Indeed they are. I can understand getting the obvious denials out first, but 4-5 at a time is ridiculous -- especially with so many non-prohibited persons waiting as long as they are for their review or hearing.

LoneRanger · Sep 28, 2015

Schipperke said:
National carry has certainly come a long way. When Illinois went from zero to shall issue, was anyone else shocked, and we here in Maryland, nothing. I've thrown money at it for years. All the pro 2A activists here, I don't care what you do, do whatever you want. The idea someone writes people here are trying to stifle gun rights is F'n comical. We live within borders that are filled with ~ 6 million that are demographically and politically per capita like nowhere else. That is the problem. Those in the boonie counties don't see that. How many public ranges in Montgomery? One? I could walk in anytime and get a lane, crappy service and one of the few that were not LEO. The two new ranges in Frederick are interesting, lets see how viable they are in a couple years.

Someone posted some statute on time limits. Problem is, try suing government to comply. Takes someone who really has to have a permit to cough up money and litigate.

Frederick is quickly becoming the new Montgomery county.

There were some new stats released last week that had Maryland as the richest state in the union...mostly fueled by taxpayer dollars.

Maryland - #1 Wealthiest State
-Median household income: $73,971
-Population: 5,976,407 (19th highest)
-Unemployment rate: 5.8% (22nd lowest)
-Poverty rate: 10.1% (2nd lowest)

Of course if you live out toward Garrett county or down near Somerset county, you might find that hard to believe.

Without a serious change in the makeup of the MGA, the only thing that will bring Maryland in line with other states regarding carry rights is the SCOTUS....

Mark75H · Sep 28, 2015

PJDiesel said:
More and longer meetings. Along with less KNOWN prohibited persons appealing. Sounds to me like half of the meetings are wasted on that.

Stupid people have the same rights as smart people. As more people apply, more people will appeal. Comes with the territory.

dblas · Sep 28, 2015

ironpony said:
Is there a large backlog of appeals? I don't recall there being a way to see if things are speeding up and no discernible methodology to who is next. Would expedience just require more meetings.
This could meter one type of progress.

Congrats klunatic

We have no clue on actual numbers, three different people call DPSC/HPRB and get three different answers. The new members on the board would like to hear a minimum of 10 appeals per meeting, but the chairman is balking a bit, and MSP has yet to supply the necessary files to do 10 appeals.

Blacksmith101 · Sep 28, 2015

We have no clue on actual numbers, three different people call DPSC/HPRB and get three different answers. The new members on the board would like to hear a minimum of 10 appeals per meeting, but the chairman is balking a bit, and MSP has yet to supply the necessary files to do 10 appeals.

According to jack McCauley the MSP are not the ones to blame for how many files go to the review board.

Jack McCauley said:
The State Police has NOTHING to do with what cases are being heard by the Handgun Permit Review Board. The State Police denies an applicant and sends him a letter. The applicant sends his appeal request directly to the Handgun Permit Review Board. The Review Board notifies the State Police of the hearing date and the case to be presented. How the Board is determining what case is heard and in what order is a bit of a mystery to me. In January of this year, they were more than two years behind hearing appeals. I'd like to hear from one of the attorney's on this forum to respond to this question;

Maryland law states, §5–312.
(a) (1) A person who is denied a permit or renewal of a permit or whose permit is revoked or limited may request the Board to review the decision of the Secretary by filing a written request with the Board within 10 days after receipt of written notice of the Secretary’s final action.
(2) A person whose application for a permit or renewal of a permit is not acted on by the Secretary within 90 days after submitting the application to the Secretary may request a hearing before the Board by filing a written request with the Board.
(b) Within 90 days after receiving a request to review a decision of the Secretary, the Board shall:
(1) review the record developed by the Secretary; or
(2) conduct a hearing.

What recourse does a citizen have if their case is not heard within the 90 day time period? Is there a legal action that can be taken with the Circuit Court to demand the review?

PJDiesel · Sep 28, 2015

2 years behind is not acceptable, something in COMAR needs to change.

BeoBill · Sep 28, 2015

Schipperke said:
My thought is the only way Maryland legitimizes issuing to business owners vs everyone is issuing with the restrictions. If restrictions can be overturned by a business owner, the "during business only" , how then is Maryland going to justify not issuing to non business owners?

The MSP doesn't have to justify anything to anyone. Just look at their SOP vs the reality of the actual permitting process.

BeoBill · Sep 28, 2015

Blacksmith101 said:
According to jack McCauley the MSP are not the ones to blame for how many files go to the review board.

OK, so here are the selection candidates based on that:

A. Ms. Street (incumbent)
B. Mr. Goodenough
C. Board Chair
D. ? (someone Curran-based in the background)
E. Captain Stachurski

Seems your guess is as good as mine.

Muleskinner · Sep 28, 2015

PJDiesel said:
2 years behind is not acceptable, something in COMAR needs to change.

yeah...that'll happen...Liberals still run the state..and frankly I wouldn't put it passed Hogan to veto it even if it did pass.

PJDiesel · Sep 28, 2015

Liberals may run the State, but the Governor is supposedly not one.

LoneRanger · Sep 28, 2015

PJDiesel said:
Liberals may run the State, but the Governor is supposedly not one.

Don't forget where he is from. His roots are in PG county, where his father was a life long politician......I'm betting there is more liberal blood than conservative blood.

ironpony · Sep 28, 2015

2 years behind?
Aren't they also one person short on the board? Could that be intentional so the HPRB is not overturning denials too fast? (tie won't overturn) OR Hogan is saving money.

This whole Second Amendment thing seems strange (MD) and where in the hell have all the squirrels gone!

PJDiesel · Sep 28, 2015

Collecting nuts for the winter.........

HPRB September 15, 2015 Meeting Thread

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