CCW training requirement just might be here soon.

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    Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,867
    AA County
    Totally disagree.

    I may trust you with a gun. I may trust myself. But I do not trust the general public. One look at the idiot videos on Youtube should give you an idea of how stupid people can be with guns. People need to learn respect for firearms, and how to operate them properly. Training should be mandatory, affordable, and easily accessed before a ccw permit should be granted. Also, a bit of time spent in that class reviewing local laws can be very beneficial. People should also learn about proper/safe storage. I am completely sick of reading about idiots leaving a loaded gun out and their kid taking it to school and accidentally shooting someone. That someone could easily be my daughter.

    A manditory training course can not guarentee the outcome you desire. Just look how many idiot drivers are on the roads. How well does manditory training keep people from driving over the posted speed limit? You are falling into the "feel good" trap that most Anti's dwell. You can not prevent stupid people from being stupid. No training, no tests and no witnessing can control future events.

    We don't just let anyone who can buy a car get in one and drive.

    You are wrong. A drivers license is not required to buy or operate an automobile. It is only required to operate an automobile on public roadways.
    I drove a truck on the farm when I was 12 without any license.
     

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    People shouldn't be forced into training by the state, because the state already mandates training for you to purchase a regulated firearm.

    You have the mindset, that people have the time and money to get said training otherwise they're lazy.

    Some good honest hard working people have neither, due to other commitments. Informal training is normally their avenue, until they can catch a break in life.

    Well sure. I'm with you on that. But not everyone falls into that category. And I can tell you if someone I care about was harmed because of someone that was untrained did something they should not have done because they did not know any better, your words will not make me feel any better.
     

    safecracker

    Unrepentant Sinner
    Feb 26, 2009
    2,405
    I'm for a training requirement. I know it sucks and adds another hurdle but the way I see it is no different then taking drivers ed and passing a drivers test.

    Also, if all they want is a training course, then I will take what I can get, especially regarding a BS law that has been untouched for almost 40 years. As the saying goes, "beggars can't be choosers"

    Just my 2c
    Au contraire.

    Driving is a privilege.

    The right to keep and bear arms is a right, GUARANTEED by the Constitution.

    Big difference between the two. Attaching rules to rights turns them into privileges. And privileges can be taken away by those who make the rules.
     

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    A manditory training course can not guarentee the outcome you desire. Just look how many idiot drivers are on the roads. How well does manditory training keep people from driving over the posted speed limit? You are falling into the "feel good" trap that most Anti's dwell. You can not prevent stupid people from being stupid. No training, no tests and no witnessing can control future events.



    You are wrong. A drivers license is not required to buy or operate an automobile. It is only required to operate an automobile on public roadways.
    I drove a truck on the farm when I was 12 without any license.

    Your just splitting hairs. You know what hes trying to say. To drive on roads you need a minimum amount of training so you do not harm yourself as well as others. I drove on a farm as well. And you know what, on a farm your not harming the general public when you run into the barn or back over your chicken.

    But the farm gave you and opportunity to learn how to drive safely before you drove on the road.
     

    dlmcbm

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2011
    1,207
    Sabillasville, Md.
    Training does not prevent stupidity. People do stupid stuff.

    A lot of you forget your argument for carry, criminals carry, they have no training...

    When the stupid person shoots someone they can't cry that they did not know better if they have to have training.


    Yes criminals carry without training and they also kill people for $5 . lucky if they can do it without 2 mags and hitting 3 other people.
     

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    Au contraire.

    Driving is a privilege.

    The right to keep and bear arms is a right, GUARANTEED by the Constitution.

    Big difference between the two. Attaching rules to rights turns them into privileges. And privileges can be taken away by those who make the rules.

    And so is free speech. But you don't come out of your momma exercising your right of free speech. You have to learn how to talk before you go around saying anything you want.
     

    dlmcbm

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2011
    1,207
    Sabillasville, Md.
    Au contraire.

    Driving is a privilege.

    The right to keep and bear arms is a right, GUARANTEED by the Constitution.

    Big difference between the two. Attaching rules to rights turns them into privileges. And privileges can be taken away by those who make the rules.

    At the point that you have to fill out an app, get fingerprints, go through an investigation and get approved...... I think CCW is a privilege. You can have that privilege taken away by committing a crime.

    If we had constitutional carry then it would be a right
     

    mayor_quimby

    4+4= Jello
    Nov 19, 2008
    4,602
    Then you should take a training course to vote.

    Rights are different than privileges ;)

    :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    I still don't understand people on here . The good fight was fought to remove a BS law and people are now sitting around thinking that the State will do whats "right" with training (if it goes down that road) . All this time the online/ video training was enough funny now all of a sudden magically its not. You have the State playing hard ball on one side but then think they will roll right over with training? Come on get real. Look at DC or Chicago look how they "rolled over" .
     

    Storm40

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 13, 2009
    1,373
    Harford County
    i find it amusing that we as a group rail against the antis because they're effectively keeping us from exercising our 2A rights. Many times, that's because the antis fear guns and don't trust them in the hands of "just anyone." Now we're on the verge of getting our 2A rights and now some of our own want state mandated training because they fear guns in the hands of "just anyone."

    Training is good. It is a responsible choice for an individual to make. Philosophically, I find it abhorrent that training is required to exercise a fundamental, enumerated Constitutional Right. Practically speaking, if the training were free or very low cost then it is something I could live with. Pragmatically speaking, having the State instruct you, at a minimum, about the laws surrounding carrying a concealed weapon, is a fine and understandable requirement since very few of us ever got to carry concealed and very few of us know what the laws truly are and make no mistake, once shall issue happens those same laws will likely change with great frequency for the first few years. That said, Americans do not need a reason (or training) to exercise a Right. The Right's existence is the only reason he needs.
     

    safecracker

    Unrepentant Sinner
    Feb 26, 2009
    2,405
    And so is free speech. But you don't come out of your momma exercising your right of free speech. You have to learn how to talk before you go around saying anything you want.
    Where do I go to get training to be ALLOWED to attend church???
     

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    I'm just saying before you do anything that may harm others, no matter if it's driving a car, carrying a gun flying a plain, folding Parachutes for others, you should have training.

    Smart people will get training on their own not matter if the state has a requirement or not. people who need training and do not bother because they do not mind putting everyone around them in danger fall into the stupid column. The US has a never ending supply of stupid people.
     

    Merlin

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 31, 2009
    3,953
    Carroll County, Maryland
    i find it amusing that we as a group rail against the antis because they're effectively keeping us from exercising our 2A rights. Many times, that's because the antis fear guns and don't trust them in the hands of "just anyone." Now we're on the verge of getting our 2A rights and now some of our own want state mandated training because they fear guns in the hands of "just anyone."

    Training is good. It is a responsible choice for an individual to make. Philosophically, I find it abhorrent that training is required to exercise a fundamental, enumerated Constitutional Right. Practically speaking, if the training were free or very low cost then it is something I could live with. Pragmatically speaking, having the State instruct you, at a minimum, about the laws surrounding carrying a concealed weapon, is a fine and understandable requirement since very few of us ever got to carry concealed and very few of us know what the laws truly are and make no mistake, once shall issue happens those same laws will likely change with great frequency for the first few years. That said, Americans do not need a reason (or training) to exercise a Right. The Right's existence is the only reason he needs.


    Well I can say I do not necessarily want it. but you or I can not make believe there are people who do not need it.
     

    Boxcab

    MSI EM
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 22, 2007
    7,867
    AA County
    Well sure. I'm with you on that. But not everyone falls into that category. And I can tell you if someone I care about was harmed because of someone that was untrained did something they should not have done because they did not know any better, your words will not make me feel any better.

    How will you feel when someone you care about is harmed by someone with training? It happens everyday on our roadways. Training will not prevent people from screwing up or being dumb.

    I agree training is the responsable thing to do and I have taken some courses myself, but it should not be a requirement. It can not prevent accidents or stupid actions.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,366
    SoMD / West PA
    :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    I still don't understand people on here . The good fight was fought to remove a BS law and people are now sitting around thinking that the State will do whats "right" with training (if it goes down that road) . All this time the online/ video training was enough funny now all of a sudden magically its not. You have the State playing hard ball on one side but then think they will roll right over with training? Come on get real. Look at DC or Chicago look how they "rolled over" .

    Yep, lots of "FUDDS" around here.
     

    safecracker

    Unrepentant Sinner
    Feb 26, 2009
    2,405
    i find it amusing that we as a group rail against the antis because they're effectively keeping us from exercising our 2A rights. Many times, that's because the antis fear guns and don't trust them in the hands of "just anyone." Now we're on the verge of getting our 2A rights and now some of our own want state mandated training because they fear guns in the hands of "just anyone."

    Training is good. It is a responsible choice for an individual to make. Philosophically, I find it abhorrent that training is required to exercise a fundamental, enumerated Constitutional Right. Practically speaking, if the training were free or very low cost then it is something I could live with. Pragmatically speaking, having the State instruct you, at a minimum, about the laws surrounding carrying a concealed weapon, is a fine and understandable requirement since very few of us ever got to carry concealed and very few of us know what the laws truly are and make no mistake, once shall issue happens those same laws will likely change with great frequency for the first few years. That said, Americans do not need a reason (or training) to exercise a Right. The Right's existence is the only reason he needs.
    I agree. Wholeheartedly. Training is a good thing and I recommend and endorse it.

    HOWEVER, when politicians create "training" requirements in order for the people to exercise a right, said right no longer exists as a right. Now that right has been reduced to a privilege, which can be further restricted or even denied by those in power.

    It really is that simple.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,372
    White Marsh
    I'm just saying before you do anything that may harm others, no matter if it's driving a car, carrying a gun flying a plain, folding Parachutes for others, you should have training.

    Smart people will get training on their own not matter if the state has a requirement or not. people who need training and do not bother because they do not mind putting everyone around them in danger fall into the stupid column. The US has a never ending supply of stupid people.

    I bolded "you" in your quote because such choices should be left to the individual as we're talking about a specifically enumerated civil right. As for stupid people, well, there's no argument there, but these folks have the same rights as the rest of us.
    -----------------------------

    Separately from all of this, let's all of us calm down about training requirements, at least for the moment. I'm a betting man and I would lay some pretty long odds of the politicos in Annapolis managing to draw up a bill from scratch, slam it through the pertinent rules committees and/or petition it to both floors of the General Assembly and get it passed in the next 72 hours or so. There are bigger fish to fry.

    Relax. Enjoy the weather. We'll fight this fight if and when there materializes a fight to fight.

    ...fight. :D
     

    dlmcbm

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2011
    1,207
    Sabillasville, Md.
    I agree. Wholeheartedly. Training is a good thing and I recommend and endorse it.

    HOWEVER, when politicians create "training" requirements in order for the people to exercise a right, said right no longer exists as a right. Now that right has been reduced to a privilege, which can be further restricted or even denied by those in power.

    It really is that simple.

    At the point that we do not have constitutional carry then our right to carry is not there. It has become a privilege at that point.
     

    Storm40

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 13, 2009
    1,373
    Harford County
    Well I can say I do not necessarily want it. but you or I can not make believe there are people who do not need it.

    people say stupid, incendiary things all the time. sometimes they spark riots. this is why the shouting of "fire" in a crowded theater is illegal - putting people in danger with your rights is not allowed, but we're punishing the irresponsible act, not the exercise of the right.

    criminals get protected by the 4th amendment all the time, law abiding people say "sure, officer, go ahead and search my car". If the officer finds something, well, stupid, you chose to not exercise your right and you were harmed by it. You exercised (or not) your right as you saw fit. You live with the consequences, too.

    open carriers provoke incidents to make youtube videos. they were stupid, but within their rights. We didn't take their rights away just because someone else (a "concerned citizen" and/or LEO) thinks that it was (and it probably was) a stupid thing to do. there was a thread on here some time back about a guy, legally carrying on his property when the police told him not to. And folks HERE ON THIS BOARD told him "you were within your rights, but that was stupid".

    point is, liberty and safety sometimes enjoy an inverse relationship. Sometimes you have to allow stupid to do as stupid does. The point being that Stupid should have to live with those consequences, not every other citizen choosing to exercise their rights in a responsible manner.

    Training is good. Allowing the Gov't to shape the exercise of your Rights is not. The Gov't GIVING you training which you can take of your own free will, free of charge, for your own good is fine because it's free and it's not a bad idea. Requiring that training is something different - and because your point is essentially a valid one - a fight for another time.
     
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