Engage to sell so called "smart gun"

Jim12 · May 3, 2014

Tyeraxus said:
You may not need it. I sincerely doubt that many of us here need it. But what about a fence-sitter who has been out once or twice and is thinking about a range toy, but has been scared stiff by the Anti-rights propaganda about kids finding guns and immediately shooting themselves? This might be the ONLY firearm they'd buy. We all know the best way to flip an Anti-gunner to the Pro-rights side is to take them shooting, let them see how fun it is, and make them want one of their own.

It's the politicians who want to use this technology to advance their anti-rights agenda that are the problem, not the technology itself. But I'm with the doc on this one - they don't NEED an excuse, they're going to do what they want to push their agenda regardless.

Once those fence-sitters buy one of them, it will be argued that they are evidence that this is the only gun that anyone really "needs."

Here's an idea: If they're so wonderful and safe, why doesn't some other country, like China, North Korea, or Cuba allow them first, as a freedom-expanding measure, instead of here, as a limitation on liberty?

501st · May 3, 2014

Tyeraxus said:
I never said there weren't better options. I'm talking about people in urban areas that are thinking about getting into shooting, but have been brainwashed into being scared stiff that their kid is going to find it and shoot themselves. Yeah, a safe is a good investment, but maybe they don't have the space, maybe they don't want their wife/husband/partner to see the safe and know they bought a gun, or whatever. I'm not talking about the vast majority of gun buyers, I'm talking a very niche market here - but maybe larger than we think in the DC/Balto corridor. Yes, a normal gun and a safe is likely the best decision (but I make no claim to know anybody else's utility curve - that particular hubris is reserved for socialist central planners), but if they're emotionally opposed to a regular gun, I'd rather than buy a "smartgun" than no gun.

100% honest here, I don't understand what you're saying in relation to what you're saying (maybe because I didn't explain my position very well leading to a communications disconnect). Can you walk me through it, please?

You realize they make secure single pistol safes the size of a shoebox from Ft. knox or Amsec, right?

The second pat of what I bolded is how bad things tend to happen.

Point is just because the 2A applies to all non prohibited persons, doesn't mean everyone should own a gun. If a person is too fearful to own a normal gun even with multiple redundant secure storage measures, perhaps they shouldn't own any gun at all.

There are tens of millions of people who deal with normal guns in their homes (some of which have children) that do not experience any accidental shootings/deaths despite the presence of those firearms. If it's good enough for all those people, it should be good enough for anybody.

iH8DemLibz · May 3, 2014

Huckleberry said:
Smart Guns, Breathalyzer Interlocks on all cars, Remote Commanded Vehicle Shutdown, Cell Phone Autonomous GPS tracking, NSA Internet Tracking

You can have your technology but I'll keep my privacy if you don't mind

Spoken like a true Luddite.

I commend you, Sir.

Technology be Damned.

Tyeraxus · May 3, 2014

Jim12 said:
Once those fence-sitters buy one of them, it will be argued that they are evidence that this is the only gun that anyone really "needs."

The Antis are already arguing that, with zero being sold. That horse has left the barn.

501st said:
You realize they make secure single pistol safes the size of a shoebox from Ft. knox or Amsec, right?

I do, but do they? Remember, we're talking about people who know squat about guns, safes, gun culture, etc. At most they have a buddy who took them to the range a couple of times.

501st said:
There are tens of millions of people who deal with normal guns in their homes (some of which have children) that do not experience any accidental shootings/deaths despite the presence of those firearms. If it's good enough for all those people, it should be good enough for anybody.

Here's my problem with that - you're equating two very different sets of people, and saying that because someone who is comfortable around guns and knows what's what with someone who doesn't, and has been told pretty much since birth that "guns are eeeeebil and will kill your children!!!111oneone" Urban yuppies, suburban soccer moms, etc.

I'm not in favor of mandating that all guns should have this technology. I wouldn't buy one. But I think it should be available. A lot of people see it as "the camel's nose under the tent" towards gun control. I turn that on its head - I see it as a potential nose under the tent towards more widespread gun ownership. "Hi, yeah, I bought this 'smartgun' to take to the range, but it's a POS and won't shoot most of the time." "Well, if you're looking for something a little more reliable, we have this Ruger SR22 over here. It's much more reliable, plus it's only about a third of what you paid for that other one. If you're worried about your kids finding it, we have this small safe over here..."

Let's make social engineering work for us, for a change. We can't keep preaching to the choir and expect to win in the legislatures.

Is it a risk? What in life isn't? But with social surveys consistently saying that gun ownership is declining as a portion of households, we need to do something to make inroads. Otherwise we'll lose elections, and thereby lose the courts through judicial appointments, and the 2A two-step will kill our rights.

I don't worry so much about MY rights... I worry about my kids' rights, and my grandkids'.

smokey · May 3, 2014

ShallNotInfringe said:
And the drama continues. Front page of Washington Post (ABOVE the fold)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...227-11e3-9e25-188ebe1fa93b_story.html?hpid=z1

Annnnnd chad got quoted in there out of context. It made it seem like he was saying he's not surprised gun owners would make death threats. Dern.

lennyk · May 3, 2014

Has made it to Fox News. I read about it this morning. I am actually surprised Andy would go this route. I have met him several times. I have one of his rifles. The James Bond PPK was cool in the movies but I could never trust the technology. I understand that everything evolves, but the only "jamming" that I would expect in a firearm is one caused by a bad round, not a radio signal.

Then again, this is his shop and he can sell what he wishes. When it comes down to it, if one is only comfortable with this technology vs a quick release gun vault then so be it. Better be this than nothing. I just hope it works when you really need it. You will only have one chance.

smokey · May 3, 2014

ShallNotInfringe said:
And the drama continues. Front page of Washington Post (ABOVE the fold)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...227-11e3-9e25-188ebe1fa93b_story.html?hpid=z1

ok guys, the comments section on this is full of tard. Please toss some posts in there clarifying that nobody in this thread advocated violence against andy, that there is no way of knowing if the threats came from gun people or anti-gun people trying to make us look bad because they came through facebook and over the phone, and that we are all for advances in gun safety technology but we do not want it mandated.

WAPO is a big enough site that the comments section matters.

drblast33 · May 3, 2014

lennyk said:
Has made it to Fox News. I read about it this morning. I am actually surprised Andy would go this route. I have met him several times. I have one of his rifles. The James Bond PPK was cool in the movies but I could never trust the technology. I understand that everything evolves, but the only "jamming" that I would expect in a firearm is one caused by a bad round, not a radio signal.

Hmm... brings up an idea. Someone just needs to develop and sell a RF jammer that can be publicized in the media as an "evil home evasion anti-self-defense tool" and everything will work itself out with this whole "smart gun" idea.
Technology introduces many new capabilities but introduces many vulnerabilities and dependencies.

hdatontodo · May 3, 2014

drblast33 said:
Hmm... brings up an idea. Someone just needs to develop and sell a RF jammer that can be publicized in the media as an "evil home evasion anti-self-defense tool" and everything will work itself out with this whole "smart gun" idea.
Technology introduces many new capabilities but introduces many vulnerabilities and dependencies.

EMP ?

hdatontodo · May 3, 2014

The first Smart Gun should have held 20 rounds and fired AK-74 ammo, so the anti's could not have their cake and eat it too.

jc1240 · May 3, 2014

North86 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFRUVa-92Rk

Here is Padilla at the UN. Please note how she references GPS tracking.

SWO Daddy said:
Even better - unless you have a CCW, your gun will only operate on your property. It could work just like the ankle bracelets...

If I heard the woman in the video correctly, the guns (with the proper infrastructure) could be disabled at schools, hospitals or any other "area of public safety." If that is the goal, I can see it going to "your property only" with an exception for designated gun ranges.

A general comment about Andy's video, any one else's video, and comments - once it's on the Internet, it's there for as long as the Internet/WWW exists in this form. Someone cached it; someone will share it even if you delete it. Think about it before you share it.

I don't think there was anything wrong with Andy's video except that emotional part with reference to the politicians. This is an example where one should wait and watch/read with a clear head before sharing something like that. I know I've canceled many email messages and posts after reading them after the emotion dissipated.

We know what Andy was saying, but the press has no scruples. Journalism died - the last remnants of it going away with the 2008 election coverage. Reporters no longer report. They opine. They leave out key words and context in quotes which to me is nothing short of blatant lying.

annihilation-time · May 3, 2014

pbharvey said:
Products don't chip away at our rights.
Misguided politicians chip away at our rights.

^This

clandestine said:
Engage will came out of this BETTER then when they went in.

Screw the pusscake whiners.

And.... ^This

The idea that a smart gun creates gun control is absurd. Just like gun violence, gun control is a people problem.

I'm disappointed at how stupid some gun owners are.

Huckleberry · May 3, 2014

iH8DemLibz said:
Spoken like a true Luddite.

I commend you, Sir.

Technology be Damned.

Luddite? But, I love my Glocks and zippers on my jackets and pants

More of a 19th Century Man awash in a sea of 21st Century personal irresponsibility and over encroaching progressive governmental statism.

Just trying to find my Walden Pond with a 1000 yd range in this modern world.

drblast33 · May 3, 2014

hdatontodo said:
EMP ?

More like one of these: http://www.instructables.com/id/RF-Jammer/

Bob A · May 3, 2014

iH8DemLibz said:
Spoken like a true Luddite.

I commend you, Sir.

Technology be Damned.

Exactly. Technology will ultimately destroy Western Civilisation, as it replaces workers with computer-controlled devices. It's happening in every field, and soon enough only service jobs will be available for the many. The few will have a hard time feeding the multitudes, who will resent this.

Once we collapse back into a proto-industrial state, the masses can again be utilised for physical labor, and controlled by the overlords.

I eagerly await.

lennyk · May 3, 2014

annihilation-time said:
^This

And.... ^This

The idea that a smart gun creates gun control is absurd. Just like gun violence, gun control is a people problem.

I'm disappointed at how stupid some gun owners are.

Not stupid...just concerned about control of our own firearms, in our own lawful possession. Technology breeds counter technology. It's the natural law of things. The only "safety" that I want to see is a flick of a lever, operated by my own thumb.

clay_shooter · May 3, 2014

Bertfish said:
I think it's time for me to pay Engage a visit and buy something.

I have mixed feelings on this. Engage is great but this weapon is going to bring nothing but problems for gun owners in the state. It is a firearm that can be jammed / disabled by authorities, criminals or just bad preparation.

The police would be all over this if it was as reliable and safer than other handguns.

clay_shooter · May 3, 2014

peoples1234 said:
The sooner that the NJ law goes into effect, the sooner it can be challenged.

You mis-typed. History says the you should have said:

The sooner the NJ law goes into effect, the sooner it will appear everywhere else

Anotherpyr · May 3, 2014

hdatontodo said:
The first Smart Gun should have held 20 rounds and fired AK-74 ammo, so the anti's could not have their cake and eat it too.

And have select fire with 3 round burst and full auto capability. I mean, it's smart after all so no innocent people will EVER be shot by one.

Respen33 · May 3, 2014

I have kept quiet and have been having conversations on the side on this. People will do what they want and feel how they want.

I've heard that this was a matter several years ago and yet both right and left media refer to recent defiance to sell. Obviously all parties involved, therefor, are not trustworthy and that includes engage. They, reasonably so, are attempting to salvage some face after making a mistake. The Washington News post tastes blood in the water and even Fox News is trying to mitigate the issue instead of refute it.

Me have makes a great product, quality parts, and has a great group of people. That said the business made a mistake defying the 2a community agreeing to sell. Shame on them.

Buy if you want, I know friend who will. I will not nor ever will. I cannot trust a flipper or political back peddling company.

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