Buying an M11/9 - what to look for?

So, it's looking like this might be the bonus season that I finally buy an M11/9 SMG. What should I be looking for in terms of buying one? I don't really know anything about them, other than I'd need a new upper to make it anything besides a bullet hose. (One thing that attracted me to the M11/9 was the number of nice uppers available for it: MAX-31, MAX-11, MAX-11/22, AA SABRE, etc.)

erwos said:

So, it's looking like this might be the bonus season that I finally buy an M11/9 SMG. What should I be looking for in terms of buying one? I don't really know anything about them, other than I'd need a new upper to make it anything besides a bullet hose. (One thing that attracted me to the M11/9 was the number of nice uppers available for it: MAX-31, MAX-11, MAX-11/22, AA SABRE, etc.)

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Best thing about M11/9s are that there are still a ton that are NIB, unfired. SWD stacked them deep before the ban. 9mm mags are much easier to find than my 45s for the M10. Prices for the M11/9 also tend to run higher.

If you comb sub guns and sturmgewehr, you'll be likely to find a good deal. If you find a local shop with one, even better since you can inspect it. Otherwise stick with a reputable dealer like Ruben Mendiola or Frank Goepert. Rubens items are on the pricier side, but you get piece of mind, professionalism, and a quality product. Frank sometimes doesn't have the actual item in stock so you have to wait a bit longer. Hope this helps.

Happy hunting

Fairly simple open bolt machine gun. I've read endless chatter about the 1986 guns being of lesser quality. Mine is from 86 and runs like a champ. Allegedly the welds can be problematic, which is easily remedied if need be. Find one in your price range and get things moving.

The only variants in the M10 family and its derivatives with weld problems were the Stephensville made guns (aka Texas MACs). They were spot welded and are easily repaired.

erwos said:

So, it's looking like this might be the bonus season that I finally buy an M11/9 SMG. What should I be looking for in terms of buying one? I don't really know anything about them, other than I'd need a new upper to make it anything besides a bullet hose. (One thing that attracted me to the M11/9 was the number of nice uppers available for it: MAX-31, MAX-11, MAX-11/22, AA SABRE, etc.)

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Really not much to look for other than price. Frankly I would look for a stock upper.... probably means less time being shot.

Boonie Hat said:

Best thing about M11/9s are that there are still a ton that are NIB, unfired. SWD stacked them deep before the ban. 9mm mags are much easier to find than my 45s for the M10. Prices for the M11/9 also tend to run higher...

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I would not pay a penny more for NIB. Well maybe a penny but not much. The last MG that will ever be collected... These are shooter grade guns.

The biggest down side to the whole design is the plastic 9mm mags. They are single stack and suck! I would not plan on shooting them or pay more for extras. If you go Suomi upper, then obviously the 72rd drums. Otherwise Shcokwave just came out with new metal mags with stops. http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=1780
These seem to be the way to go. Mine are waiting in VA, so I can't say for sure yet. Recon Ordnance mags allow you to over insert and bend the ejector rod. I have $100 worth of bent rods at this point. They are better than the Original mags but shockwave look promising. However being a single stack mags is the worst point of the whole gun! Uzi mags are so much nicer!

Billman said:

Fairly simple open bolt machine gun. I've read endless chatter about the 1986 guns being of lesser quality. Mine is from 86 and runs like a champ. Allegedly the welds can be problematic, which is easily remedied if need be. Find one in your price range and get things moving.

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I have an 86 M11/9. Its slightly out of spec. I would rather do a non-86 receiver but would not pay much more. Welds are issues on M10s not M11s.

Abacab said:

The only variants in the M10 family and its derivatives with weld problems were the Stephensville made guns (aka Texas MACs). They were spot welded and are easily repaired.

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Yup

Biggest thing on these is price. Then you strip it and add lage accessories. So anything else does not add much value IMHO.

Alright, so I look for a stock M11/9 (or maybe with reasonably priced Lage accessories to taste) on subguns or sturmgeweher or maybe locally. Is there some kind of payment protocol I should be aware of for Internet sales? How do I protect myself on this sort of deal?

My friend just bought one for 4200.00. Like new, stem mag conversion on a form 3.

I'll keep an eye out for a good deal and pass the info to you.


And get on the lage wait list. The max31, although a bit chunky, dominates subgun matches.

I have both max11 and 31 uppers that you can try out.

Get the cheapest Cobray M11/9 you can find. I constantly skim over the NFA market places, and they seem to be running in the $4500 +/- $500 range. You also might want to check local shops to see what they have in stock, as to cut down on wait time. You can also pickup the older metal mags at US Machinegun, but as IMBLITZVT stated you have to be careful when inserting them, as to not bend the ejector rod. I was lucky enough to find out about that problem before being too rough with them. Insert until you hear a click and then give a slight tug downwards. Their springs can also bind up if you load the ammo in too forcibly. I'm also looking forward to the new mags, but the recon mags will do fine for now.

Love my Max-11 upper, although I had to go with the tactical bolt(~900rpm), as opposed to the stock slow fire bolt (~650rpm). Just too slow for a proper bullet hose

erwos said:

Alright, so I look for a stock M11/9 (or maybe with reasonably priced Lage accessories to taste) on subguns or sturmgeweher or maybe locally. Is there some kind of payment protocol I should be aware of for Internet sales? How do I protect myself on this sort of deal?

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Do business with a reputable, known dealer or have some way of vetting who it is. If it's an individual, request photos of the gun with a message of your choosing on a sheet of paper and make sure the forms match. Some take all upfront or half now, half when you're approved. Best advice, if it's too good to be true or something doesn't feel right, don't send your money

Someone who shall remain nameless has pointed out to me that the SABRE uppers are currently on hold due to some sort of dustup between AA and MagTech. According to the Uzitalk thread, though, MagTech is attempting to bring them back eventually, so I can live with that. Really, I'm mostly interested in shooting 9mm and 22lr to start...

Use the ZMAG and nothing else. They work flawlessly for me.

bobthefisher said:

Get the cheapest Cobray M11/9 you can find. I constantly skim over the NFA market places, and they seem to be running in the $4500 +/- $500 range. You also might want to check local shops to see what they have in stock, as to cut down on wait time. You can also pickup the older metal mags at US Machinegun, but as IMBLITZVT stated you have to be careful when inserting them, as to not bend the ejector rod. I was lucky enough to find out about that problem before being too rough with them. Insert until you hear a click and then give a slight tug downwards. Their springs can also bind up if you load the ammo in too forcibly. I'm also looking forward to the new mags, but the recon mags will do fine for now.

Love my Max-11 upper, although I had to go with the tactical bolt(~900rpm), as opposed to the stock slow fire bolt (~650rpm). Just too slow for a proper bullet hose

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Tactical bolt or the speed bolt? Tactical bolt is about 750. Speed bolt runs about 900. The MAX-11 mk2 now uses a variable buffer system so you don't have to use different bolts. I am still waiting for my mk2 though in the end I still love the crappy stock upper and a Gemtech Viper.

erwos said:

Alright, so I look for a stock M11/9 (or maybe with reasonably priced Lage accessories to taste) on subguns or sturmgeweher or maybe locally. Is there some kind of payment protocol I should be aware of for Internet sales? How do I protect myself on this sort of deal?

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Don't forget GB. You should expect to pay 100% to start paperwork. Any less than that is just being nice.

Protect yourself? Thats hard. I posted some a fake form 4 a while back. Call them! Call and talk, Ask questions they should have some idea of and general shooting info. Look up the person on the internet. Search their address. My guy showed up as a sex-offender. Look up his house on one of the internet real estate sites. Does he live there? Is the house worth $10K? Look for red flags. Usually guys with MGs are not in the hood... Don't jump on any good deal you can't verify. First sign of a scam is needing money quick. There is not much money to get off the price, so don't worry about losing a deal. If really worried. Call ATF with serial number and say you think its a scam... then they will likely confirm either way. Call back if you need to until you get someone willing to help. Assume its a scam and then prove to yourself its not.

SCARCQB said:

My friend just bought one for 4200.00. Like new, stem mag conversion on a form 3.

I'll keep an eye out for a good deal and pass the info to you.


And get on the lage wait list. The max31, although a bit chunky, dominates subgun matches.

I have both max11 and 31 uppers that you can try out.

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I would highly suggest not getting a mag conversion.... maybe good back in the day... now they are a pain. Sten mags sucks!!!

The Max31 seems long to me on the M11/9. If you really want it, get the M11 (380). The Max31 does seem to be taking over but I still love my MkI Max11. Can't beat steel and if you do, you can repark it!

bobthefisher said:

.... You can also pickup the older metal mags at US Machinegun, but as IMBLITZVT stated you have to be careful when inserting them, as to not bend the ejector rod....
Love my Max-11 upper, although I had to go with the tactical bolt(~900rpm), as opposed to the stock slow fire bolt (~650rpm). Just too slow for a proper bullet hose

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Yeah its not me that bents ejector rods. Its usually when I let someone else shoot it. They jam it up there and the gun does not even get a round off... I have gotten hardened ejector rods that lage sells. They work a LOT better but still bend eventually. A lot cheaper to buy shockwave mags if they are as good as they claim. I should find out next year. The Speed bolt is 900rpm. Tactical is 750rpm.

Boonie Hat said:

Do business with a reputable, known dealer or have some way of vetting who it is. If it's an individual, request photos of the gun with a message of your choosing on a sheet of paper and make sure the forms match. Some take all upfront or half now, half when you're approved. Best advice, if it's too good to be true or something doesn't feel right, don't send your money

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Yes however I have even seen them fake and digitally insert names and items in pictures! Oh and search the picture name... ie... fakepicture.jpg search that in google. I found a Spas12 scam that way. Unless he really wanted to lose $300 on a gun without second thought. If worried paying the extra to a dealer can help.

erwos said:

Someone who shall remain nameless has pointed out to me that the SABRE uppers are currently on hold due to some sort of dustup between AA and MagTech. According to the Uzitalk thread, though, MagTech is attempting to bring them back eventually, so I can live with that. Really, I'm mostly interested in shooting 9mm and 22lr to start...

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Yeah don't hold your breath on the SABRE. Sounds dead to me.

Abacab said:

Use the ZMAG and nothing else. They work flawlessly for me.

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Good to hear!

Abacab said:

Tactical bolt or the speed bolt? Tactical bolt is about 750. Speed bolt runs about 900. The MAX-11 mk2 now uses a variable buffer system so you don't have to use different bolts. ....

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Yup.

PM sent, I know where one maybe for sale locally

$15.00 worth of sheet metal. 32rounds in about 2 seconds. A lot of money for really a hunk of junk. If your getting a cheap machine gun(like their is one) go with a Sten or SW 76. Had a few macs over the years and was never impressed and that's when you could get one for $500. Take out a second mortgage and get an HK the wife won't mind!

5.56blaster said:

$15.00 worth of sheet metal. 32rounds in about 2 seconds. A lot of money for really a hunk of junk. If your getting a cheap machine gun(like their is one) go with a Sten or SW 76. Had a few macs over the years and was never impressed and that's when you could get one for $500. Take out a second mortgage and get an HK the wife won't mind!

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Sten - no customization, miserable mags to load, slow, ugly, uncomfortable. However, cheap mags and parts and you can convert it to a Stenling

SW76 - expensive now (real one $8k and up, not later copies), expensive mags ($150 and up), no parts (call Scott Andrey and if you are lucky to get an answer, wait a year for a trigger bar), no customization however you can suppress it

Any MAC - great customization, readily available parts relatively cheap, tons of mag options for the SWD M11, grease gun mags cheap and readily available for M10 .45, tons of suppressor options. Bone stock SWD is not the most pleasant shooter at first but easily rectified. Stock M10 Powder Springs guns run very well and are reliable.

I strongly disagree MACs are hunks of junk. They are simple, reliable (with good mags) and easily worked on by even the least skilled among us. They are absolutely a gun for people who like to tinker. If you want something that works out of the box, get a factory M16 or a double push pin HK. I've had the fortune of working with a bunch of different machine guns and all of them require maintenance. I've shot MACs that hadn't been fired in 10-15 years that once I put a ZMAG in ran flawlessly. I've also had a sear HK in my hands that didn't work at all. Hell, I've worked on a STEN that only fired in bursts .

Bottom line, MACs junk? No. Zytel mags with SWD guns junk? Yes. Anyone who tells you to just get a HK (price on an entry level HK RR 91 with a married sear is 18-19k) is either so blinded by the HK name or really uninformed.

Yes, sorry I meant speed bolt. I personally find that 900rpm is smoother to control then 650rpm (too choppy), although it obviously goes through ammo much quicker. Plus the bolt is lighter, the original bolt felt a little front heavy. Personal preferences.

Abacab said:

Tactical bolt or the speed bolt? Tactical bolt is about 750. Speed bolt runs about 900. The MAX-11 mk2 now uses a variable buffer system so you don't have to use different bolts.

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Other then the buffer system, which is a pretty simple concept that has been around a while with the Speed Cube, what other innovations are on the Max-11 mk2? I couldn't figure that out, other then it looks slightly different. I'm sure it's still a quality product. The people over at Lage are top notch!

Abacab said:

...I am still waiting for my mk2 though in the end I still love the crappy stock upper and a Gemtech Viper.

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Who here still doesn't like breaking out the stock upper from time-to-time after a long day. I put the Speed Cube on it, and watch the rainbow of brass fly at 1600rpm! Too much fun
The Gemtech Viper is also a classic.

bobthefisher said:

Other then the buffer system, which is a pretty simple concept that has been around a while with the Speed Cube, what other innovations are on the Max-11 mk2? I couldn't figure that out, other then it looks slightly different. I'm sure it's still a quality product. The people over at Lage are top notch!



Who here still doesn't like breaking out the stock upper from time-to-time after a long day. I put the Speed Cube on it, and watch the rainbow of brass fly at 1600rpm! Too much fun
The Gemtech Viper is also a classic.

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Mk2 is lighter by a pound or two. Shell deflector added and no more accessory rails. I believe it is all one piece.

Speed cube = stupid but fun!

5.56blaster said:

$15.00 worth of sheet metal. 32rounds in about 2 seconds. A lot of money for really a hunk of junk. If your getting a cheap machine gun(like their is one) go with a Sten or SW 76. Had a few macs over the years and was never impressed and that's when you could get one for $500. Take out a second mortgage and get an HK the wife won't mind!

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I would guess its well less than $15 worth of steel. It gets through 30rds in more like 1.5 seconds. However even a slow shooting MG does it in 3 seconds... I think its fair to say you have a pre-Lage understanding of the Mac. With modern uppers the Mac is far superior to the Sten or SW76. Its like if you were comparing the M16 based on the XM16E1 that had all the issues in Vietnam compared to the modern M4 platform. Like night and day.

bobthefisher said:

Yes, sorry I meant speed bolt. I personally find that 900rpm is smoother to control then 650rpm (too choppy), although it obviously goes through ammo much quicker. Plus the bolt is lighter, the original bolt felt a little front heavy. Personal preferences.

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Yeah, I like moving through my bolts. I tend to run the 650rpm bolt (mine are lightened for DF mags). However I had the speed bolt in it the last two shoots. Its amazing how much the speed changes based on how well oiled/dirty the gun is.

bobthefisher said:

... what other innovations are on the Max-11 mk2? I couldn't figure that out, other then it looks slightly different. I'm sure it's still a quality product. The people over at Lage are top notch!...

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Well its an AL two piece upper. Frankly I see it more of a production difference. That said, I would rather have a steel upper myself.

Abacab said:

Mk2 is lighter by a pound or two. Shell deflector added and no more accessory rails. I believe it is all one piece....!

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He did change the back a little so you don't need to buy the gas block. Frankly that is biggest plus. I see a lot of people spending the money to upgrade to the MkII but I think I will stick with the MKI. Not that there is anything wrong with the MKII but I think I like the MkI a little better and I certainly don't like the MKII $800 more.