Martial arts or firearms training?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    No traditional martial arts blend with firearms. Krav Maga in Israel does, but not here. MCS teaches open hand, stick, knife, and pistol within seven yards during all three phases of combat, standing free range movement, clinch, and ground control.- George
     

    Kilroy

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 27, 2011
    3,069
    Does there need to be something between "I'm going to choke you mode" and "I'm going to shoot you mode?"
     

    zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon
    In brief, I don't think the style matters even a fraction as much as the quality of instruction. There's a lot of phonies out there these days. Well worth it to look around carefully before settling in somewhere.
     

    Mossberg Kid

    Active Member
    Feb 24, 2012
    275
    Rockville
    I would also note there's one critical factor no one can teach you: your warrior spirit, your will to survive. It takes more than that, but it has to start with that.
     

    Guderian

    Active Member
    Mar 31, 2011
    451
    IMO, Krav Maga is the best for me and my situation. There are other classes I have taken and enjoyed with good instructors, usually one day class on weekend or in evening on weekday, but I find that without the practice and reptition, I just can't retain it over time.

    Krav Maga may not be the best, but it's better than nothing, and it gives me opportunity to practice something 2x times a week at least or more, and hopefully retain it for when it matters. I will take more advanced or different classes when I can, be we all have to start somewhere.

    I consider Krav Maga as giving me my base. As I said, I have taken other classes, but can't retain it. Maybe after I get comfortable with Krav, I'll be able to retain the materials from the other classes easier as I won't be such a newb. YMMV.

    I hope we can all get some kind of non-lethal close combat training, Woolard, notwithstanding. More tools in the toolbox can't hurt.
     

    Kilroy

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 27, 2011
    3,069
    The way I remember different martial arts movements is to replay them in my head after class. Visualize doing them over and over. I'll make a mental checklist of the order I need to move my body parts in.
    For example a Judo O goshi throw:
    ogoshi.gif

    Set grips (hands)
    unbalance opponent (sharp turn with a steering wheel)
    put front lead foot next to their front foot (front foot)
    sweep other foot into position (other foot)
    twist hips (hips)
    bend knees to below their center of gravity (knees)
    etc.

    Now that I wrote this out it seems really complicated, but in reality I'm visualizing and saying "grips, twist, hand, front foot, hips, knees, lift, pull, slam, hang on, arm bar." This looks really weird written out, but it's how I retain the moves. Try to come up with something similar and you may find yourself progressing faster.
     

    Rugbier

    Active Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    650
    MD
    For my job we do Masada tactical look it up on YouTube
    If interested in I will give u BK info mma ,knife ,guns, defense combative. I blessed with a job that givesme all this training but he takes on normal class to.


    Not many people get to experience Masada, great exposure to stop the oponent
     

    mercop

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 7, 2008
    1,523
    SW PA
    I would hate to spend time and money on doing something that I felt was "better than nothing".

    99% of situations can be handled with awareness and avoidance, the last 1% is aggressions. It is wise to train in positions you will likely find yourself in and not those you would like to end up in. Hard to accomplish in the dojo when everyone there is coming for a different reason.- George
     

    FRISteve

    Active Member
    Apr 2, 2012
    113
    Dover, PA
    A lot of BJJ guys have gotten in trouble because in court it's generally seen that you have finished defending yourself when you get the takedown and a dominant position. Going for the jointlock or whatever is considered you assaulting them.

    Do you have any cites for this? It is easy to say that, but some cites would be better.

    Another point: how can you be assaulting someone when you are defending yourself? In other words, that is what self defense is. He attacked me, so I attacked back (defended myself). What the triers of fact are concerned with is: were your actions reasonable?

    Obviously, if you repel an attacker by knocking him down and then jump on him and ground and pound, then you are probably no longer able to claim self-defense. Conversely, if you are knocked to the ground and the bad guy jumps on you and starts pounding you, you can defend yourself. In that case, BJJ might very well be a useful skill to have.

    That's the problem with generalizations.
     

    Chris1760

    BOHICA
    Jul 15, 2008
    14
    MD
    WOW I love The BJJ guys in the real world BJJ is nice... But here is reality in the real world alot of fights are 2 or more against you if you go to the ground you get stomped or killed on the street there are not mats try rolling around on the ground with the glass on the street.. ok

    FMA works so dose Kajukenbo this is not self defence its combat... and the sooner you get your mindset there its easier... FMA we do alot of blade work... You live in MD then carrying a gun is a personal choice you have to make for your self, Fights are not fair and there are no rules... Surrive the encounter and worry about the legal fight after that. I have a Criminal Attorney on retainer and Bail bondsman that will get me out if need be this is just part of my preps... What you dont want is for you to be sitting in jail and the wife or mother has no idea what to do for you... its abount planning

    Good luck and stay safe...
     

    OLM-Medic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 5, 2010
    6,588
    I've been doing Krav Maga for just a little while and I like it. It is easy to learn when you practice it. It prepares you for common things that happen on the street first (ie chokes, headlocks, grabs, punches, and also works on your offensive moves...aka combatives). It is also good to learn gun and knife defenses (once you get into it). I figure if we put so much effort into being the shooter, we probably should learn to be on the other side of the gun (or knife) as well.

    Martial arts AND firearms FTW
     

    FRISteve

    Active Member
    Apr 2, 2012
    113
    Dover, PA
    Martial arts AND firearms FTW

    EXACTLY!

    Here's the biggest problem that is often overlooked. You're carrying your gun (post G&S), 2 knives, pepper spray, a taser, and a cell phone. The next thing you know, there's a bad guy 2 feet in front of you threatening you with serious bodily harm (with or without a weapon).

    Are you going to have the time and ability to get to any of the tools mentioned above before he hurts/kills you? Probably not.

    So what's the answer? Combatives. Having this skill set is probably more important than gun skills. They will do one of two things for you in this situation, and both are good outcomes.

    First, using your combatives, you might be able to *end* the threat, either by disarming the bad guy or by disabling him. That works.

    or

    You can use combatives to get *distance* from the bad guy. At this point, you can deploy your tool of choice, based on the situation that you're in. That might be running away, it might be the OC/taser, or, if the threat is still serious/deadly, the gun. Again, the combatives gives you options that you did not have before.

    Note that I do not mention a specific art. To be frank, I don't care. Personally, I would prefer a less structured, more across the board set of skills.

    And, whatever actions you take, do them like your life depends on it, because it does. Always remember, the worst technique done viciously is far better than the best technique done tentatively.

    EXPLODE - BE VICIOUS - DO WHATEVER IT TAKES!
     

    gasman

    Active Member
    Oct 8, 2007
    368
    Baltimore City
    Excellent posts, all. I especially like what FRISteve said. At close distances, decisive violence of action will rule the day. And like George said, awareness and avoidance (and I would add contact management) will keep you out of most situations where you have to go to your training. Unfortunately, this is ignored by many "gun schools." When you go to a class, and the instructor is standing there in his web gear with the adjustment straps maxed out, and he's almost out of breath just talking to you, and he's teaching you square range, 2 hands on the gun, perfect Weaver or isosceles, concentrate on the front sight kind of stuff, it makes you wonder if this is really what you're really there trying to learn. Are you looking for skills to help you survive, or to help you run a qualification course? Get the best training you can. I really don't care with whom (don't tell my boss ;)), but make sure it is good training that you can stand back and look at and say yeah, this is going to help me get home to my family at night, this is going to help me protect those that matter to me most.
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    Do you have any cites for this? It is easy to say that, but some cites would be better.

    Another point: how can you be assaulting someone when you are defending yourself? In other words, that is what self defense is. He attacked me, so I attacked back (defended myself). What the triers of fact are concerned with is: were your actions reasonable?

    Obviously, if you repel an attacker by knocking him down and then jump on him and ground and pound, then you are probably no longer able to claim self-defense. Conversely, if you are knocked to the ground and the bad guy jumps on you and starts pounding you, you can defend yourself. In that case, BJJ might very well be a useful skill to have.

    That's the problem with generalizations.

    If you read what you wrote and read what I wrote then you'll see we are in agreement. "Obviously if you repel an attacker by knocking him down and then jump on him" and then continue to attack be it by GnP or by jointlocks / chokes then you generally are seen to have turned into the aggressor. You are no longer considered to be defending yourself when you have completed defense, and then instead of disengaging you follow them to the ground and resume the fight. I've never said groundwork is not good to have; it's more then necessary especially for little people like me. You just have to be very careful in your application of it.
     

    Indiana Jones

    Wolverine
    Mar 18, 2011
    19,480
    CCN
    WOW I love The BJJ guys in the real world BJJ is nice... But here is reality in the real world alot of fights are 2 or more against you if you go to the ground you get stomped or killed on the street there are not mats try rolling around on the ground with the glass on the street.. ok

    FMA works so dose Kajukenbo this is not self defence its combat... and the sooner you get your mindset there its easier... FMA we do alot of blade work... You live in MD then carrying a gun is a personal choice you have to make for your self, Fights are not fair and there are no rules... Surrive the encounter and worry about the legal fight after that. I have a Criminal Attorney on retainer and Bail bondsman that will get me out if need be this is just part of my preps... What you dont want is for you to be sitting in jail and the wife or mother has no idea what to do for you... its abount planning

    Good luck and stay safe...

    this is incorrect. "BJJ" is not only ground fighting. Relson Gracie's system is recognized as the most complete, self defense Gracie Jiu Jitsu system. It is geared for SELF DEFENSE, not competition like these ground control clowns teaching watered down crap. RGJJ self defense has knife, gun, stick, you name it. 99% of it is done standing, some ends on the ground, but you end up on top in a superior position. the misconception that "BJJ" is a ground only discipline is fairly common. "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu" is an off brand of Gracie Jiu Jitsu. if you follow the lineage from Maeda this is evident. Many agencies have contracted Relson and his top black belts such as the FBI, USMC, US Army, US SOCOM, DEA, the Air Marshalls and MANY small police departments. One of these such guys who has done a ton of teaching, training, competing, and US Olympic Team Kodokan Judo competition is black belt Stuart Ramos. He is Relson's most trusted guy. We're lucky he moved to Maryland a few years ago. He has a school i used to train/compete at until i got injured in november doing something totally unrelated to martial arts. (dumb story). His school is in Towson, and he has one in Clarksville. Dont expect an easy belt. If you do it wrong, even the slightest way you will not progress. Relson's system is slow and methodical, because it works and is practical. 90 pound women can defend themselves against men hundreds of pounds heavier. Ive tried all the martial outs out there minus tai chi, and i honestly belive through my experience that a good blend of Judo, and Gracie Jiu Jitsu is an exceptional self defense platform. It never hurts to have more. Pile it on! knowing how to throw a punch is a good skill too!

    here is a link to the school. they are really really really nice people, and are totally dedicated to helping people. plus, they love guns!
    www.teammarylandbjj.com
     

    lx1x

    Peanut Gallery
    Apr 19, 2009
    26,992
    Maryland
    If you read what you wrote and read what I wrote then you'll see we are in agreement. "Obviously if you repel an attacker by knocking him down and then jump on him" and then continue to attack be it by GnP or by jointlocks / chokes then you generally are seen to have turned into the aggressor. You are no longer considered to be defending yourself when you have completed defense, and then instead of disengaging you follow them to the ground and resume the fight. I've never said groundwork is not good to have; it's more then necessary especially for little people like me. You just have to be very careful in your application of it.

    I agree. Some would not know if both are on the ground who the BG is.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,927
    Messages
    7,259,375
    Members
    33,349
    Latest member
    christian04

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom