You explain it (if you have to) by saying officer I knew you weren't asking me about that situation because its been expunged and as I am sure you know its a crime in Maryland for you to ask me about that.
Expungments, Disclosure & Maryland State Police Applications
- Thread starter CypherPunk
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You explain it (if you have to) by saying officer I knew you weren't asking me about that situation because its been expunged and as I am sure you know its a crime in Maryland for you to ask me about that.
Straightshooter
Ultimate Member
Keep in mind that only PBJs, NOLLEs,and STETS can be expunged. None of these disposition are considered convictions and likely are not forwarded to FBI/NCIC anyway.
Next time I talk to Julie Ensor, I'll definitely ask her these questions.
Straightshooter
Ultimate Member
EXACTLY. If people would just read the code, they would find the answer to these questions.
ericahls
Active Member
For what it's worth, I have carry permit and I have an assault charge and disorderly conduct on my arrest record. However it was a no prosecute disposition.
My driving record at the time was also pretty crappy.
My driving record at the time was also pretty crappy.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
A "Not Guilty" can be expunged too.
HeatSeeker
Ultimate Member
Understood, but that is still a lot like when a judge instructs a jury to disreguard that last statement....they still heard it. I also have to say that since getting a W&C permit in MD is at the total discretion of the MSP, how well do you think saying these things to them will go over with your application. I understand it is the letter of the law, but it is still decided by an MSP trooper based on your interview and application weather you get a permit or not. In MD passing the background check is just a small part of getting a permit. It is really the opinion of the MSP if you have met their requirements.
HeatSeeker
Ultimate Member
You can read the code over and over and over, but this is MD. As much as it sucks, in this state permits are given based on MSP opinion. Passing a background check is really just a pre-requisite. The permit is given based on weather or not the MSP's opinion is that you have met their requirements and a failure to disclose an arrest because of expungement could really hurt that opinion. It shouldn't based on the code, but I am sure it would anyway.
You always go on about the "code" , but does the code really matter based on the way MD issues permits?
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
You would be the type of client that I refuse to represent nowadays. The clients that know how the law should be. The clients that insist that personal credit card interest is deductible, that suits for work are deductible, that home improvements to their personal residence are deductible, etc. The clients that know the criminal law "like the back of their hand", but really have no clue. It really is amazing though. These people want to pay an attorney to help them, but then they do not want to listen. Vaya con dios is what I say. I don't need the headache anymore.
Yes, you can probably respond to MSP a little more gently than CharlieFoxTrot would. For instance, "I did not disclose that because my attorney advised me that per Maryland law I did not have to. As a result, he specifically advised me not to put it in the application. Should I have put it on the application? Was my attorney wrong about Maryland law regarding expungements?"
However, disclose away if it makes you feel better, and deduct that kitchen sink repair too.
Straightshooter
Ultimate Member
The answers have been given to you. If you are afraid to present an argument for your actions that are well within the law, then there's no way to convince you otherwise. Your argument for submission the the MSPs perceived power to require any information they ask regardless of what the laws states is much akin to a dog that continually runs to the gate to chase the mailman but that gate is one day opened, he can't figure out what to do. The law has opened that gate for you, if you decide to remain caged by paranoia there's nothing anyone here can say to fix that.
HeatSeeker
Ultimate Member
Your opinion of me is dead wrong. I do not calim to know anything about the law what so ever. I am just not a naive person. I see how this state operates especially concerning issueing W&C permits and you guys still think stating laws and codes are going to get you what you want here.
HeatSeeker
Ultimate Member
As for you man. You are just a hostile dude. All you ever do is answer everyone's posts with an, I know it all attitude. Debating with you is kind of fun at times to see just how insistant and demeaning you will become.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Yeah, I understand the tinfoil, etc. I try to keep it in the kitchen cabinet.
meanwhile, I've had clients not disclose on their CCW application and they received their CCW permit.
I know people that did not disclose on their bar applications, and they are attorneys now.
The problem here is that you are making some "what if" argument. Man, what if the trooper interviewing you does not like the clothes you are wearing, that you have a tattoo, that you have a piercing, that you have an accent, etc.?
You are going to have to give a lot of "what if" advice.
End of the day, a person does NOT have to disclose expunged matters on his/her CCW application. However, he/she can disclose to his/her heart's desire. They can do the same on their employment applications too. I would not advise it, but end of the day they can either follow the advice of their attorney or go off on their merry way and do whatever they want. I put a note in my file about the advice I give them, send them a bill, and then they take my advice and do with it as they please.
Straightshooter
Ultimate Member
Think what you want. No hostility intended but anything that anyone tells you is countered with another paranoid statement. Maybe I should have used the analogy of a dog that buried his bone to hide it, then feels he has to keep digging it up over and over again.
As far as the law goes, I did not include the final section of the code because it wasn't needed to answer the question posed. The last section makes it clear that anyone (even an MSP investigator) is prohibited from asking about an expunged charge and is subject to harsh punishment if they do. One of the nice lawyers covered that. No, I don't know it all but when I do give an opinion, I back it up, on this case with the law itself unlike the lawyer you coughed up big bucks for, who not once quoted the basis for his opinion in any code.
At least two lawyers on this forum have given you the same reasoning for not disclosing expunged records and you still refuse to understand that even if they did find something (which so far no one has come forward who has had an expunged record found without a confession) they can't use it against you.
Finally, I'm not "a hostile dude". Matter of fact I'm not any kind of "Dude". Anyone here that knows me will attest to the fact that I'm a warm and cuddly teddy bear although I'm choosy about who I cuddle with.
As far as the law goes, I did not include the final section of the code because it wasn't needed to answer the question posed. The last section makes it clear that anyone (even an MSP investigator) is prohibited from asking about an expunged charge and is subject to harsh punishment if they do. One of the nice lawyers covered that. No, I don't know it all but when I do give an opinion, I back it up, on this case with the law itself unlike the lawyer you coughed up big bucks for, who not once quoted the basis for his opinion in any code.
At least two lawyers on this forum have given you the same reasoning for not disclosing expunged records and you still refuse to understand that even if they did find something (which so far no one has come forward who has had an expunged record found without a confession) they can't use it against you.
Finally, I'm not "a hostile dude". Matter of fact I'm not any kind of "Dude". Anyone here that knows me will attest to the fact that I'm a warm and cuddly teddy bear although I'm choosy about who I cuddle with.
camobob
Active Member
- Feb 18, 2013
- 482
OP question was does he have to disclose and will he get found out. I had a minor issue expunged many years ago. On my attorney's advice I have acted as it never happened since. After many many security investigations (including several TS), applications, background checks, etc. not one word has ever been said. It seems like everyone here is in violent agreement that it is not required. Seems pretty simple to me.
Big Dog
Active Member
This is a bit off the original topic. Can all convictions be expunged? Is there a time frame. I do not have a record but someone I want to pass a firearm on to does and the conviction is a second degree assault (6 month suspended sentence and a fine). Can that be expunged or is it there for life?
I don't think convictions can be expunged, only pardoned.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Did he receive probation before judgment ("PBJ") or was he found guilty and given a suspended sentence? If he was found guilty, the answer is it cannot be expunged short of getting a pardon from the Governor. A PBJ can be expunged at any time, with some exceptions. I am in the process of expunging a 6 year old DNR violation charge wherein the charges were Nolle'd for my client.
End of the day, it all depends on the specific circumstances.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
They can be expunged after a pardon, IF they are not a crime of violence as set forth in Crim Law section 14-101(a). Guessing that the OP would be SOL on an expungement for 2nd degree assault after a pardon because I think it is a crime of violence. However, I have not reviewed 14-101(a) recently, so not 100% sure on that (i.e., that is an attorney disclaimer).
Big Dog
Active Member
Thanks for the info. It was second degree assault, pled guilty and received 6 months suspended. His attorney recommended this rather than going for a jury trial where the max is 10 years (though the feeling was that 10 would not happen) but did not want to chance it. I doubt he could get a pardon and if he did it looks like that might not lead to getting it removed from the record.
Here is the other question. Can he go shooting with me at the range. Does possess mean OWN or in the act of using?
Here is the other question. Can he go shooting with me at the range. Does possess mean OWN or in the act of using?
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
He could have plead guilty and still received PBJ. Have him check his record on Maryland Judiciary website.
Possess means exactly what it means. It does not mean own. It means what it means when somebody possesses drugs. You might be able to make a case that he is not in "possession" of the firearm because you are there with him. Kind of like somebody under the age of 18 not being able to have a firearm, but I don't know if the law reads possess or own when it comes to kids.
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