what are the chances the newer laws get changed back?

Brooklyn · Feb 27, 2015

Pinecone said:
Some do want that. But BATFE cannot do so until the law is changed. So giving them the BG checks they ask for, without the firearms info, solves both things. They get BG checks, but no registry possible, as NO FIREARMS INFO IS INCLUDED.

NO, unlicensed sellers is not going to happen. And it is not required. NICS without firearms info does this with only licensed sellers selling. How does unlicensed sellers help, if firearms info is till given to the Feds??????????

How do you ensure that the person you are selling to is a) the person on the card, b) that the card is still valid, c) that there is not updated info making the person prohibited????

And how often is the data updated? Weekly? Monthly? So the card would only be good for a week or a month and a new card sent out if you still qualify?????

Just so we are clear.
Are you trying to prove that we need a national foid or not..?

And in what fantasy world do you think the nics database is less than 6 months out of date at any point in time?

Fa data is given to the feds as a condition of license a part of every audit. The chk number on the 4473.

I am a programmer. This is my businesses. The only objective of NICs chks on every purchase is to compile a registrty.

The Bg check is a ruse.

This is my business the card is nothing more than id the only database is a list of revoked cards. Not on the revoked list? Sale proceed . Vendor private.. no difference..

Btw states are already pushing back on intra state sales of firearm s...as a business

And the existing FFL process fails SS. So yes it can go away...

It will only do so if we stop making the argments for the other side...

Let them do the work for a change.

Brooklyn · Feb 27, 2015

Pinecone said:
If you have the card, they still know who you are.

Good. Unless you have never purchased. A gun that ship sailed.

Meanwhile having the card does not provide PC for anything..esp if its never linked to a purchase.

While you invent the time machine to get back to say 1840, I intend to undo as much damage as I can..

Brooklyn · Feb 27, 2015

BeoBill said:
I think you missed the idea that a PERSON registry achieves pretty pretty much the same objective as a firearms registry - the registry holder knows which doors to knock on to find guns. You sort of creep around the idea in your questions about the card, but don't say it outright.

Luckily we avoid this at the Federal level by removing the reason for the check, but it's very much an issue when the MSP collects the info for the check. This is why in this colony I get a detective knocking on my door about a "failure to appear" one afternoon, but you get a SWAT operation at 3 a.m. for the same reason.

Seriously... your on mdshooters.. you have no secrets on the question Do you own Guns?.

The card is the least restrictive means to prevent criminals from not having to steal guns from honest citizens.

Not sure why any but a liberal fool ( but I repeat myself ) would actually claim that abetting theft is an important state interest..

But we have to start some where..

Or rather I do. I just don't think time travel is an option.

Pinecone · Feb 28, 2015

Brooklyn said:
Just so we are clear.
Are you trying to prove that we need a national foid or not..?

And in what fantasy world do you think the nics database is less than 6 months out of date at any point in time?

Fa data is given to the feds as a condition of license a part of every audit. The chk number on the 4473.

I am a programmer. This is my businesses. The only objective of NICs chks on every purchase is to compile a registrty.

The Bg check is a ruse.

This is my business the card is nothing more than id the only database is a list of revoked cards. Not on the revoked list? Sale proceed . Vendor private.. no difference..

Btw states are already pushing back on intra state sales of firearm s...as a business

And the existing FFL process fails SS. So yes it can go away...

It will only do so if we stop making the argments for the other side...

Let them do the work for a change.

NO. No card. Card makes NO sense, as you would still need to call to determine if it still valid.

Why no use the existing NICS system, just NO firearms info. You are legal to purchase or you are not.

Card or no card, the Feds will know you purchased a firearm.

Pinecone · Feb 28, 2015

Brooklyn said:
Good. Unless you have never purchased. A gun that ship sailed.

Meanwhile having the card does not provide PC for anything..esp if its never linked to a purchase.

While you invent the time machine to get back to say 1840, I intend to undo as much damage as I can..

If you are worried about them coming looking for any firearms you may have, just having the card will have them at your house.

If you do not have any, there is nothing for them to find.

Assuming the tin hat, the Feds come to confiscate all your firearms. In that case, PC will be what they say it is.

Scott7891 · Mar 1, 2015

Never, which was also the icing on the cake that led to my departure.

I still want to enjoy what little I have of my 2nd Amendment rights as well while I am still fairly young.

The guns I like were specifically banned in MD. I want to purchase more. Since I have only this life to live I want to purchase as many as I can before I kick the bucket and if I was still in MD it will never happen.

Unfortunately most people in Maryland are either apathetic or pro-gun control with the leftist culture prevalent there. Down here everyone I met has been pro-gun. My neighbor, not really big into guns, now is thinking of building his own and turned into a SKS freak because of me

. His boss, also not into guns either, at least understands the merit of the 2nd Amendment. Down here I don't have to hide my love of guns like I had to back in the People's Democracy of Montgomery County full of uptight, intolerant, arrogant, leftist a**holes.

MLO9 · Mar 1, 2015

kenpo333 said:
So I am going to stick my neck way out and give you the axe. I teach the MD wear and carry renewal class and quite a few are not safe gun handlers. One could not load his firearm and admitted that he really didn't know how to use it. Carrying without any tactical training can be dangerous to innocent people. Just a thought. I don't need the money from the classes I just like to teach. I'm also just looking for some ideas to have people carry and be safe.

I have no problem at all with this. Just like driving a car, one needs to learn how to operate firearms.
Some days at my local range; I see folks doing very stupid things that poses a safety risk to all.

Brooklyn · Mar 2, 2015

Pinecone said:
If you are worried about them coming looking for any firearms you may have, just having the card will have them at your house.

If you do not have any, there is nothing for them to find.

Assuming the tin hat, the Feds come to confiscate all your firearms. In that case, PC will be what they say it is.

No it will not.. but I am done explaining.. nics creates a purchase registry the nics check number is linked to the 4473.. and is binding proof of a firearms purchase. By law all FFL must maintain purchase info..and must hand it over on demand.

That's PC. That will get you a warrant..

Having a card is at best RS. And can never be linked to a purchase...ever..its physically impossible

In any case I am not going to lose because some folks think a card is an infringement. The court will not strike everything..

And for anyone active on MDshooters to think a card is going to make the difference for RS is funny..

Brooklyn · Mar 2, 2015

Pinecone said:
NO. No card. Card makes NO sense, as you would still need to call to determine if it still valid.

Why no use the existing NICS system, just NO firearms info. You are legal to purchase or you are not.

Card or no card, the Feds will know you purchased a firearm.

Because as explained it can't be done.. it is a point of purchase system.. they will only run the check after you contract to purchase.

I can have a DL and not own a car. Nor is a DL proof of owning a car.. in the world of data mining there is only one way to prevent linking. Make it physically impossible..

Pinecone · Mar 3, 2015

Better tighten your tin hat.

The 4473 is proof you bought a firearm. And those will not be going away.

sgt23preston · Mar 3, 2015

Let me see, what has changed, Hmmmm...?

Same old Democratic Stuffed Legislature...

My prediction, none will be rolled back or repealed...

No Bills that we wanted passed will get out of committee...

And we'll probably get some new restrictions that we didn't want...

After all it's still Merry-Land...

Oh yeah I almost forgot, we go a Republican Governor...

Brooklyn · Mar 4, 2015

Pinecone said:
Better tighten your tin hat.

The 4473 is proof you bought a firearm. And those will not be going away.

They will if folks like you stop obstructing. They fail SS. More they exist under cover of background checks.. they only exist to control access but if you control access via a permit.. no more need.

If you process a gun and are prohibited... you are in violation. If you produce your permit that's an offer of proof that vacates PC.

If not then there is PC for road side background check..

We got in this mess because. Folks gave up.. stop backing up. Start going forward..

Neither 4473 nor point of sale checks are effective at keeping gund out of the hands of prohibited persons and they are not narrowly tailored. Permits are effective and they are narrowly tailored..

4473 fails SS. It even forces a waiver of the 5th amendment.. its toast.. if the court does its job.

Pinecone · Mar 5, 2015

Neither is a card without a check that the card is valid.

Good luck on vacating the 4473. You should change your screen name to Don Quixote.

sonicnofadz · Mar 5, 2015

sb281 ain't ever going away. Build as many 14.5 fluted hbars as you can to piss off the libs in the mean time.

Brooklyn · Mar 5, 2015

Pinecone said:
Neither is a card without a check that the card is valid.

Good luck on vacating the 4473. You should change your screen name to Don Quixote.

Fine. Don't help. But it's already being done.. And it's not Bloomberg that makes it difficult.
It's our side..

UBC will pass eventually what it looks like and how intrusive it will be will depend on our side. We have the leverage to bargain. We do not have the leverage to block it.

And a few more shootings or open carry events and we may lose even that.

what are the chances the newer laws get changed back?

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