FSA2013 Fact Sheet

Pinecone · Feb 19, 2015

Also, how does FSA2013 end up causing no gun ranges in BaltimoreCity?

Were there ones before FSA2013? When? Where?

And don't forget the positive aspect of FSA2013, a HUGE increase in firearms sales in 2013.

And in many cases, new firearms owners to join our ranks.

fidelity · Feb 19, 2015

And despite the huge increase in legally owned firearms in Maryland, no increase in firearms related deaths.

Of course this has held true for at least several years as the aggregate amount of citizen owned firearms always increases.

Makes one wonder if firearms-related deaths are driven by other factors. Hmmm.

rambling_one · Feb 19, 2015

Pinecone said:
Also, how does FSA2013 end up causing no gun ranges in BaltimoreCity?

Were there ones before FSA2013? When? Where?

And don't forget the positive aspect of FSA2013, a HUGE increase in firearms sales in 2013. And in many cases, new firearms owners to join our ranks.

It's clear Baltimore City had no ranges before SB281 and/or FSA2013. It's equally clear none have been built since. While the bill(s) didn't cause the absense of them, it's equaly clear that mandating live fire in a jurisdiction that can't accomodate the requirement places an undue burden on the residents thereof.

This exercise is intended to identify the negative impacts of the bill(s). Any perceived benefits can be the subject of another thread.

Pinecone · Feb 20, 2015

FSA2013 did NOT mandate live fire.

MSP is mandating it, even though the law does not require it.

And like Baltimore City is SO huge, you cannot get out of it in a reasonable amount of time. Heck, you can get out of the state in a reasonable amount of time.

rambling_one · Feb 20, 2015

Pinecone said:
FSA2013 did NOT mandate live fire.

MSP is mandating it, even though the law does not require it.

And like Baltimore City is SO huge, you cannot get out of it in a reasonable amount of time. Heck, you can get out of the state in a reasonable amount of time.

Points taken.

Reptile · Feb 20, 2015

Why don't you solicit input to a much shorter list: negative impact on criminals of FSA2013?

Pinecone · Feb 21, 2015

Reptile said:
Why don't you solicit input to a much shorter list: negative impact on criminals of FSA2013?

That is a short list.

See below for that list:

:lol2:

BradyWarrior · Feb 22, 2015

The law itself is horribly worded. FFLs struggle to understand it, and out of state dealers have no chance of understanding it. You get tired of being treated like a leper at out of state gun shows. Because of the ambiguity, we face further 2A discrimation than the law already mandates.

The law is riddled with arbitrary and capricious bans. Thank God though, they banned the Holmes Model 88 which to my knowledge never existed. Other than in design documents created by Bill Holmes for a magazine fed pump shotgun.

Vile Shadow · Mar 1, 2015

BradyWarrior said:
The law itself is horribly worded. FFLs struggle to understand it, and out of state dealers have no chance of understanding it. You get tired of being treated like a leper at out of state gun shows. Because of the ambiguity, we face further 2A discrimation than the law already mandates.

The law is riddled with arbitrary and capricious bans. Thank God though, they banned the Holmes Model 88 which to my knowledge never existed. Other than in design documents created by Bill Holmes for a magazine fed pump shotgun.

What was that damn thing even supposed to look like?

Jack McCauley · Mar 1, 2015

The live fire requirement was written into COMAR. The FSA13 was not intended to require live fire. Legislators were clear on this discussion during meetings and hearings before the bill was passed. After the fact, Governor O'Malley's staff pushed for the live fire requirement and those same legislators pretended they did not have this discussion, allowing for the live fire requirement to be approved for COMAR. The State Police can not simply stop this requirement without a formal process to remove it from COMAR. But to simply say, "The MSP is mandating it, even though the law does not require it," is not entirely accurate.

https://www.mdsp.org/Portals/0/Downloads/COMAR/29.03.01 Regulated Firearms (9-11-13).pdf

(4) Operation and Handling Demonstration. Orientation that demonstrates the applicant’s safe operation and handling of a firearm, including a practice component in which the applicant safely fires at least one round of live ammunition.

rambling_one · Mar 1, 2015

Jack McCauley said:
The live fire requirement was written into COMAR. The FSA13 was not intended to require live fire. Legislators were clear on this discussion during meetings and hearings before the bill was passed. After the fact, Governor O'Malley's staff pushed for the live fire requirement and those same legislators pretended they did not have this discussion, allowing for the live fire requirement to be approved for COMAR. The State Police can not simply stop this requirement without a formal process to remove it from COMAR. But to simply say, "The MSP is mandating it, even though the law does not require it," is not entirely accurate.

https://www.mdsp.org/Portals/0/Downloads/COMAR/29.03.01 Regulated Firearms (9-11-13).pdf

(4) Operation and Handling Demonstration. Orientation that demonstrates the applicant’s safe operation and handling of a firearm, including a practice component in which the applicant safely fires at least one round of live ammunition.

Thanks for the clarification. Correct language is always imperative.

Blacksmith101 · Mar 1, 2015

rambling_one said:
Thanks for the clarification. Correct language is always imperative.

So for your list you need some "correct language" that explains in the process of implementation, the legislative requirements of FSA2013 were ignored and additional restrictions on our civil rights were implemented by fiat.

tc617 · Mar 1, 2015

cad68m_m said:
HQL fee only payable to MSP by credit or debit card.
Training will be very difficult for inner city residents to obtain.

If you are in the lower class and cannot obtain a credit card wouldn't this make it difficult for people of limited means from exercising their 2A rights? I am surprised the Civil Liberities Union hasn't jumped all over this. :sarcasm:

If they are against voter IDs then they should certainly be against this.

K.C.Dean · Mar 1, 2015

They make people go through all the HGL BS but when you mention voter ID they say it is to much of a burden. Hypocrites! :mad54:

Pinecone · Mar 1, 2015

Jack McCauley said:
The live fire requirement was written into COMAR. The FSA13 was not intended to require live fire. Legislators were clear on this discussion during meetings and hearings before the bill was passed. After the fact, Governor O'Malley's staff pushed for the live fire requirement and those same legislators pretended they did not have this discussion, allowing for the live fire requirement to be approved for COMAR. The State Police can not simply stop this requirement without a formal process to remove it from COMAR. But to simply say, "The MSP is mandating it, even though the law does not require it," is not entirely accurate.

https://www.mdsp.org/Portals/0/Downloads/COMAR/29.03.01 Regulated Firearms (9-11-13).pdf

(4) Operation and Handling Demonstration. Orientation that demonstrates the applicant’s safe operation and handling of a firearm, including a practice component in which the applicant safely fires at least one round of live ammunition.

COMAR is not law. It is regulation based on law.

And MSP WRITES the COMAR for the things they are responsible for. Based on the LAW passed by the legislature and signed by the Governor.

Just like the Feds, Congress does the laws, then agency that is tasked with that law promulgate regulations that are used to enforce the law. So Congress enacts laws on environmental issues, and EPA writes the regulations and enforces them.

So the statement "The MSP is mandating it, even though the law does not require it" is 100% correct.

Or if you prefer, "The MSP is mandating it via the COMAR, even though the law (FSA2013) does not require it" Happier?

Pinecone · Mar 1, 2015

rambling_one said:
Thanks for the clarification. Correct language is always imperative.

Except his language is not totally correct.

MSP writes the COMAR based on FSA2013. So MSP IS the one requiring the live fire requirement.

BradyWarrior · Mar 2, 2015

Sling Blade said:
What was that damn thing even supposed to look like?

This claims to be the model 92 that someone built. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/365636063468377862/

Probably close enough. I think he described the 88 or 89 shotgun in his prototype guns book.

EL1227 · Aug 4, 2017

Handy infographic ... bears repeating

The awesome folks at TacticalGear.com have put together this infographic that will help those living in Maryland to figure out which of their guns are now illegal.

Banned weapons listed in statute:

AK-47 in all forms
Algimec AGM-1 type semi-auto
American Arms Spectre da Semiautomatic carbine
AP-74 Commando type semi-auto
AR 100 type semi-auto
AR 180 type semi-auto
Argentine L.S.R. semi-auto
Australian Automatic Arms SAR type semi-auto
Auto-Ordnance Thompson M1 and 1927 semi-automatics
Avtomat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in any format
Barrett light .50 cal. semi-auto
Beretta AR70 type semi-auto
Bushmaster ACR
Bushmaster semi-auto rifle
Bushmaster Super Lite Carbine
Calico models M-100 and M-900
CIS SR 88 type semi-auto
Claridge HI TEC C-9 carbines
Colt AR-15, CAR-15, and all imitations except Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle
Daewoo MAX 1 and MAX 2, aka AR 100, 110C, K-1, and K-2
Daewoo USAS 12 semi-auto shotgun
Daniel Defense DDM4-V11
Dragunov Chinese made semi-auto
F.I.E./Franchi LAW 12 and SPAS 12 assault shotgun
Famas semi-auto (.223 caliber)
Feather AT-9 semi-auto
FN LAR and FN FAL assault rifle
FNC semi-auto type carbine
Galil models AR and ARM semi-auto
Heckler and Koch HK-91 A3, HK-93 A2, HK-94 A2 and A3
Hill & Mac Gunworks STG-N
Holmes model 88 shotgun
Manchester Arms Commando MK-45, MK-9
Mandell TAC-1 semi-auto carbine
Mossberg model 500 Bullpup assault shotgun
P.A.W.S. carbine
Ruger mini-14 folding stock model (.223 caliber)
SIG 550/551 assault rifle (.223 caliber)
SKS with detachable magazine
Springfield Armory BM-59, SAR-48, G3, SAR-3, M-21 sniper rifle, M1A, excluding the M1 Garand
Sterling Mark 6
Steyr-AUG-SA semi-auto
Street sweeper assault type shotgun
Striker 12 assault shotgun in all formats
Unique F11 semi-auto type
UZI 9mm carbine or rifle
Valmet M-76 and M-78 semi-auto
Weaver Arms “Nighthawk” semi-auto carbine
Wilkinson Arms 9mm semi-auto “Terry”

Banned as a copycat or copy of a listed weapon:

Adams Arms Agency Rifle 12/29/16
Adams Arms Tactical Evo Rifle 7/17/15
Anderson MFG AM-15 5/5/14
Armalite M153GN 9/9/16
ATI Omni Hybrid Maxx 5.56/.223 11/21/16
Barrett M107A1 12/9/14
BCM M4 Carbine 10/7/13
Beretta ARX 100 7/7/15
Century Arms C308 7/17/15
Century Arms RAS-47 9/12/16
Colt LE6920 9/9/16
Colt LE6940P 8/31/16
Daniel Defense DDM4-VP 1/26/17
Delton Sport 5/5/14
Desert Tech MDR 1/27/17
Diamondback DB-15 3/12/15
DJ Getz FS 94 FS 40mm 12/9/14
FN PS-90 Standard 1/26/17
Fulton Armory Semi-Auto M14 3/12/15
H & K 93 A3 11/5/14
HK 41 5/20/14
IWI GALIL ACE 10/18/16
IWI GALIL ACE SAR 10/18/16
IWI Tavor CTAR 10/1/13
IWI Tavor Flattop 10/1/13
IWI Tavor GTAR 10/1/13
IWI Tavor STAR 10/1/13
IWI Tavor TAR 10/1/13
IWI Tavor X95 Carbine, L, R S, Flattop 10/1/13
Kel Tec Bullpup 308 8/5/14
M10 7.62 AK-47 10/1/13
M1A Socom 16 10/1/13
MAK-90 4/2/14
Patriot Ordnance Factory WarHog Lite PN-00703 9/9/16
PTR-91 10/15/14
Rock River Arms LAR-15 Elite Operator 2 8/31/16
Ruger AR 556 8500 11/9/15
S & W M & P 15 10/1/13
Saiga AK47 Rifle IZ132R 4/29/15
Saiga RWCLZ-114 9/23/15
Sig Sauer 516 11/6/14
Sig Sauer M400 10/1/13
Sig Sauer MCX 7/9/15
Sig Sauer RMCX-300B-16B-TFSAL-P 1/27/17
Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport 811036 3/12/15
Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport 811041 3/12/15
Smith & Wesson M&P Sport II 9/8/16
Springfield Armory Saint 11/21/16
SRM Model 1208 3/18/14
SRM Model 1212 3/18/14
SRM Model 1216 3/18/14
Stag Arms Stag 15 5/5/14
Vector 93 A3 10/28/14
WASR-10 4/2/14
Zastava PAP 5/5/14
Zenith Z-41 7/17/15
Zenith Z-43 7/17/15

dad4 · Aug 4, 2017

EL1227 said:
The awesome folks at TacticalGear.com have put together this infographic that will help those living in Maryland to figure out which of their guns are now illegal.

There ought to be a law against this.

BeoBill · Aug 4, 2017

And it's saving lives already...

:lol:

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