Which LED combat optic?

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  • SCARCQB

    Get Opp my rawn, Plick!
    Jun 25, 2008
    13,614
    Undisclosed location
    Im currently in the market for a combat optic for an MCR rifle.( 5.56 beltfed)

    I have narrowed it down to four choices:

    trijicon TA-02 LED ACOG 4x32
    Browe Combat Optic 4x32
    Elcan m145- m249 reticle
    Zeiss Z-0

    I do like the adjustability of the new generation of LED combat optics. With battery life in excess of 8k hours. Its more practical than tritium.

    ( same pricepoint of around 1200 bucks)
    What do you think?
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    If you mount the ACOG or Browe, can you keep your face planted one inch behind it while firing beltfed? Seems more like an application for an unmagnified EOTech or Aimpoint.
     

    Caeb75

    Full fledged member
    Sep 19, 2007
    1,054
    Aberdeen
    My vote is for the elcan. Wasnt the 145 designed with the SAW in mind?

    Did you pick up a shrike for your RR?
     

    SCARCQB

    Get Opp my rawn, Plick!
    Jun 25, 2008
    13,614
    Undisclosed location
    The browe and acog do suffer from a very short eye relief.

    The Elcan and Zeiss maybe better in terms of eye relief and The elcan has a reticle thats specific for a SAW. But its more geared towards full auto only, directing that automatic" cone of fire". It wont be as accurate in semi auto.

    Since my set-up will most likely be used in semi about 90% of the time. Im still considering the Acog. the Zeiss ZO offers the longest eye relief and may be the best for both semi and burst fire. It also offers a bigger field of view when compared to the browe or Acog.

    Does anyone have a Zeiss ZO? Any feedbacks? Thanks
     

    Indiana Jones

    Wolverine
    Mar 18, 2011
    19,480
    CCN
    If you mount the ACOG or Browe, can you keep your face planted one inch behind it while firing beltfed? Seems more like an application for an unmagnified EOTech or Aimpoint.


    Yes you can. I frequently see videos of soldiers using Acogs on SAWs and 240s. Might be a special model though better adapted for that. Maybe we can get a recent infantry guy to clarify. My friend had an Acog on his SAW in Afghanistan. Ill have to ask him.


    Sent from the Bantu Wind using Tapatalk.
     

    ObsceneJesster

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 31, 2011
    2,958
    I'm just not a fan of fixed x4 optics. They aren't ideal for CQC and there are better options for mid/long range.



    Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7
     

    SCARCQB

    Get Opp my rawn, Plick!
    Jun 25, 2008
    13,614
    Undisclosed location
    The ARES MCR is capable of sub MOA groups with good ammunition. Unlike the M249 SAW which fires only automatic mode, the MCR can be used with a registered m16 lower to provide a true selective fire platform.

    Aimed semi automatic fire is more accurate and the ability to lay down suppressive fire is a gamechanger. the MCR is two weapons rolled into one. The quick change heavy barrel can sustain heavy volumes of fire.

    The MCR in magazine fed configuration is equivalent to the HK M27 IAR( infantry automatic rifle) that is being fielded by the USMC to replace many of the aging M249 SAWs. It is more accurate than the open bolt SAW and does not make the SAW gunner stand out. BETA C or SAW mags can approximate the firepower of the original M249. The IAR is also about half the weight of the 249. same for the MCR. The short stroke side mounted piston system also does ay with bolt tilt issues.

    So an Accurate combat optic may be required for my civilian SAW/IAR project. Mainly to capitalize on the improved accuracy ( .75 moa) and firepower( mag or beltfed). i may follow the USMCs lead and go with the combat proven ACOG.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    ...
    The MCR in magazine fed configuration is equivalent to the HK M27 IAR( infantry automatic rifle) that is being fielded by the USMC to replace many of the aging M249 SAWs...

    So an Accurate combat optic may be required for my civilian SAW/IAR project. Mainly to capitalize on the improved accuracy ( .75 moa) and firepower( mag or beltfed). i may follow the USMCs lead and go with the combat proven ACOG.

    The M27 IAR does not seem like a good idea to me. Not belt fed... does not seem like it will be able to lay down the firepower that is need at time.

    I am in the same boat with the same basic platform. I can say I hate single dot red dot optics. I have them, don't like them. I like having a ringed point like an EOTech. I would add to the above list two things. First an EoTech with a magnifier. Second would be the ability to use with a NV scope (like a mounted PSV14)
     

    SCARCQB

    Get Opp my rawn, Plick!
    Jun 25, 2008
    13,614
    Undisclosed location
    I tried the eotech with magnifier on the MCR. I did not like it. The rear rail is a bit too short to fit both eotech and magnifier. I have mounted the eotech on top of the handguard , that works, but the magnifier is too far back and the eotechs frame somewhat come into the field of view. Kinda distracting.

    I also like my mag fed MCR. I have been using a BETA C mag with it and i just ordered the 150 round SAW mag. This maybe the closest I can get to an M27 IAR or 249 SAW. in fact, the mag fed MCR is very reliable, even feeds cheap steel cased. Ammo that chokes the beltfed version. It will even cycle with anemic 223 rounds. The beltfed only likes brass cased full powered 556. One thing that surprised me is that the MCR is capable of excellent accuracy. Better than most ARs. So... A good magnified optic is a must. It is a Assault, designated marksman, squad automatic rifle. Well, Mission configurable rifle( MCR) also works.
     

    Indiana Jones

    Wolverine
    Mar 18, 2011
    19,480
    CCN
    All this talk about CQC/CQB......you ninjas must live in really shitty neighborhoods. I think if the elite of the US military used a 4 power Acog for a massive variety of different roles....it is good enough for you to use on your GD shooting bench at the range. Not directed at you scar. I think people are overanalyzing. Think about what you are using it for and decide. Alot of what-if scenarios are kinda silly. What if a roving band of satanists attack me at close quarters at the range? What scope do i need haha

    something with CROSShairs? I crack my stupid self up.

    Sent from the Bantu Wind using Tapatalk.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    All this talk about CQC/CQB......you ninjas must live in really shitty neighborhoods. I think if the elite of the US military used a 4 power Acog for a massive variety of different roles....it is good enough for you to use on your GD shooting bench at the range. Not directed at you scar. I think people are overanalyzing. Think about what you are using it for and decide. Alot of what-if scenarios are kinda silly.....

    I don't really feel like your reply was directed my way either but I would say this. I think most of us would have a hard time justifying a need for any firearm for day to day activity. So your argument that there is no need for... does not really apply as there is not a need at all. If you want to put it into civilian terms, I would think of this weapon being used for longer, maybe 600 yard fire, down to a CQB role inside a house. Talking Riots or group of thieves breaking into your house. Maybe you have no other gun. Really anyway you look at it, its not over thinking taking the time to fit the best possible expensive optics to your gun and the roles it could be suited for. The Military also used the Reising MG. However it still was not the best design. Then there is also personal taste. So going through a few different optics to pick what would be the absolute best is not a waste of time IMO. Hell Iron sights would do, of course an ACOG would do, however is it the best option... maybe, maybe not... its not like they are saying the ACOG is crap...
     

    SCARCQB

    Get Opp my rawn, Plick!
    Jun 25, 2008
    13,614
    Undisclosed location
    All this talk about CQC/CQB......you ninjas must live in really shitty neighborhoods. I think if the elite of the US military used a 4 power Acog for a massive variety of different roles....it is good enough for you to use on your GD shooting bench at the range. Not directed at you scar. I think people are overanalyzing. Think about what you are using it for and decide. Alot of what-if scenarios are kinda silly. What if a roving band of satanists attack me at close quarters at the range? What scope do i need haha

    something with CROSShairs? I crack my stupid self up.

    Sent from the Bantu Wind using Tapatalk.

    Old doctrine of combat optics= low magnification scope.

    I just put a 2.5x scope on a Tavor, I use a 1.5 x on an AUG and I think a 4 x ACOG should work. i just prefer adjustable LED illumination over tritium or fiber optic light collectors.

    My SAW / IAR will serve as designated tin can killer.

    Plus.. i live in PG county, pissing distance from SE DC... It is a given that I live in a shitty neighborhood.
     

    ObsceneJesster

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 31, 2011
    2,958
    All this talk about CQC/CQB......you ninjas must live in really shitty neighborhoods. I think if the elite of the US military used a 4 power Acog for a massive variety of different roles....it is good enough for you to use on your GD shooting bench at the range. Not directed at you scar. I think people are overanalyzing. Think about what you are using it for and decide. Alot of what-if scenarios are kinda silly. What if a roving band of satanists attack me at close quarters at the range? What scope do i need haha

    something with CROSShairs? I crack my stupid self up.

    Sent from the Bantu Wind using Tapatalk.

    Going by that logic, why not just get a Barska?

    Do I use my rifles at the range? Yes, of course.

    What if scenarios may be silly to you but to others, it's a hobby. Some people just like being prepared for all possible scenarios.

    Yes the military uses ACOGS and if you talk to any marine who fought in Fallujah, they'll tell you they hated them.

    I've taken a few carbine classes and shooting at multiple targets inside 25 yards at 4 power is a major handicap. If you analyze most modern battles (Iraq and Afghanistan), everything the military is shooting at is well beyond 100 yards. They aren't seeing the downside of a fixed 4 power until they're forced to gunfight in an urban setting.
     

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