AR-15: M4 or A2 or A4 profile

echo6mike · Mar 29, 2014

This is really a matter of opinion, but I'll ask since I'm slowly starting to build out the AR-15 lower I got last year.

My big decision is what style to build it into - the M16A2 I used in the Corps is tempting. But if I decide to make it a full 20" rifle, maybe I should make it a mock M16A4. The other option is to build out a carbine, either an M4 or a 16" profile.

What do people think about these, folks who've shot each? I'd love to be able to get a feel for the newer versions and decide that way, maybe I'll have a chance this summer before I get all the parts.

But the main purpose will be shooting paper, realistically at 200 yards and less (if I had a 500yd range, I'd be all over that) and, secondarily, as a HD/SHTF weapon. Case 1 (target shooting) calls for a full size rifle. Case 2 leans more to the shorter weapons.

So let's discuss!

I found a few threads that kinda went into this, but not great depth and they're old. So it can't hurt to start the debate frest, right?

Gmercury2000 · Mar 29, 2014

I personally like the look of the A2. I have both but prefer the A2 set up. Have both a 16" and 20".

BradMacc82 · Mar 29, 2014

A2 would be nice, especially if that's what you were previously issued - it's like going home again.

But honestly, for the range and for any possible home use, I'd lean towards the M4/clone length.

Of course you could do a slight mash-up, 20" upper on collapsible stock, get a bit of both worlds in one.

ObsceneJesster · Mar 29, 2014

For SHTF and HD, wouldn't you rather lug around a 16" barrel rather than a 20".

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

BossmanPJ · Mar 29, 2014

I also have both... +1 on the carbine length for any home defense uses. However, if you are mainly focusing on a range toy you may be happier with what you were used to

echo6mike · Mar 29, 2014

I'm also looking at prices, and putting a 16" build together will be a lot cheaper overall. Lots of good deals come up here and there on parts from stocks to complete uppers. Not so sure where to start with A2-style stuff...

BradMacc82 · Mar 29, 2014

A2 complete upper - https://www.stagarms.com/model-4h/ $560

Furious George · Mar 29, 2014

20 in. bbl. with traditional stock.

The main purpose of owning the rifle is to shoot it, and shoot it well, not to carry it around.

Go for the A4 - modern optics friendly and you can add a detach CH with metallic sights if you want the USGI iron sight experience. Elevation adjustments on the A4 detachable CH are finer than the standard A2.

DC-W · Mar 29, 2014

Enjoy

http://www.del-ton.com/ar_15_kits_s/1.htm

I bought a 16" mid-length kit and it shot great right out of the box.

silanehead · Mar 30, 2014

Whichever you build, you're gonna want the other one too.
Just face it now. Plan on more than one.

Biggfoot44 · Mar 30, 2014

Actually during a certain time period during the mid 1980's , Colt produced some interesting transitional rifles. One that is now second owner , with unbroken provence of being in factory configuration :

A2 buttstock , round handgaurds , A1 upper reciever . A this point , take your pick of bbl profile for prefered balance.

Minuteman · Mar 30, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
A2 complete upper - https://www.stagarms.com/model-4h/ $560

Not bad. Stag is best known for making rifles for left handed shooters. Are you a lefty?

Also check out Daniel Defense and AAC. Wait, check this first, the Harpe from Ares Armor: http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/aa_BAupper

They aren't shipping them yet, but you don't sound like you are in a hurry.

To answer your question, the 5.56 was designed and ideal at 20". But what little you lose in velocity is relatively insignificant. I agree most 5.56 AR's are ideal 200 meter guns that can work out to 600m if the gun and shooter are dialed in. I like being able to also use one for Home Defense (HD), so my preference if I could only have one... 16", with adjustable stock and small light, 2 point sling, flattop piccatinny, red dot and back up irons.

Ps I'm not an AR guy, someone will be along shortly with much better advice.

Magnumite · Mar 30, 2014

" Of course you could do a slight mash-up, 20" upper on collapsible stock, get a bit of both worlds in one."

I had a set up like this using an HBAR upper. It was front heavy so I put lead shot in the battery storage compartments of the stock. Balance was much better. The collapsing stock did enhance close quarter portability. Still not as fast in action as a 16" M4 type configuration, but not bad either.

echo6mike · Mar 30, 2014

silanehead said:
Whichever you build, you're gonna want the other one too.
Just face it now. Plan on more than one.

So true ^^^ !!

If only I'd planned better and bought more lowers pre-ban, I wouldn't even have this decision!

:mad54:

But I only gots the one, so ... I'm going to have to find a friend with a good long range and a 16" "modern shorty" I can feed, see how it feels.

Great pointers and advice from everyone, by the way, keep 'em coming!

Muchas gracias...

BradMacc82 · Mar 30, 2014

Minuteman said:
Not bad. Stag is best known for making rifles for left handed shooters. Are you a lefty?

On long guns I'm left eye/left hand dominant, but can go weak side in a pinch.

Handguns, I'm ambidextrous.

Stag may not have the provenance of say Colt, but they do make a fine rifle. My first upper was a Stag 3HL (lefty), it's still going strong and shooting straight with a little over 8k rounds down the pipe - I donated it to my father's x-mas build a few years back. He's a lefty as well.

Minuteman · Mar 30, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
On long guns I'm left eye/left hand dominant, but can go weak side in a pinch.

Handguns, I'm ambidextrous.

Stag may not have the provenance of say Colt, but they do make a fine rifle. My first upper was a Stag 3HL (lefty), it's still going strong and shooting straight with a little over 8k rounds down the pipe - I donated it to my father's x-mas build a few years back. He's a lefty as well.

That's cool; I was just guessing. I've read nothing but good about Stag, can't say I've shot one myself.

Practice shoulder transitions and know your limits with your non dominate eye.

BradMacc82 · Mar 30, 2014

Minuteman said:
That's cool; I was just guessing. I've read nothing but good about Stag, can't say I've shot one myself.

Practice shoulder transitions and know your limits with your non dominate eye.

The transitions were a bit awkward at first, but over the years they've become easier to do while static and on the move.

Non-dominate eye, if I can keep things within 100 yards - good solid hits are relatively easy. Shouldering weak-side does still feel odd with some rifles, but it isn't enough to deter me from keeping at it.

Now using a magnified optic on weak-side, that's a bit more interesting, but it can be done.

303_enfield · Mar 30, 2014

One lower + the three uppers you are looking at

bkuether · Mar 30, 2014

Can't go wrong with Stag lefty or righty.

I would say out of my 3 ARs it has the nicest fit and finish.

My Core 15 is my favorite rifle right now, but that is because of it's weight.

I have the Stag Model 8 with the piston, and despite everyone telling me I didn't need one, I got one anyway. Love the gun. Hate the weight. I would imagine a Stag model 4 would be a fine upper based on what I have seen.

armed ferret · Mar 31, 2014

Why does 200 yards mandate a 20" barrel?

The perpetuation of the myth that 4" of barrel somehow renders the gun useless beyond 25 yards is ridiculous. I'll be shooting a 16" ar15 at 300 on saturday. Betcha I do just fine.

AR-15: M4 or A2 or A4 profile

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