Finally got a Tavor in the shop and need

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  • Wayne1one

    gun aficionado
    Feb 13, 2011
    3,127
    Bowie, MD

    Great, :sad20: I am sure there are bullpups out there that are 26" OAL.. My AUG is 28" and my Tavor is also 26" OAL. That comment was directed to someone else saying that he had a "rifle" with a OAL of 26" (not an SBR) so I wanted to make sure he knew we were talking about OAL (or even if he knew how to measure OAL) and not barrel length etc... Since he mentioned pinning barrels and other things that weren't necessarily relevant to OAL.


    IMG_2877 by 556 Channel (HD), on Flickr
     

    FoxFirearms

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 13, 2013
    242
    Columbia, MD
    Just to let everyone know - I just spoke with the State Police, and even the 18" barrel Tavor is not MD compliant as it comes in the box. The flash hider or muzzle break has to be permanently fixed to the barrel in order for it to count as part of the overall length. If not, you would have to measure it without the break/hider, and it would be just uner 29" - not MD compliant. I suggest buying an extended recoil/butt pad...that will take it over 29" without the hider/break.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    Just to let everyone know - I just spoke with the State Police, and even the 18" barrel Tavor is not MD compliant as it comes in the box. The flash hider or muzzle break has to be permanently fixed to the barrel in order for it to count as part of the overall length. If not, you would have to measure it without the break/hider, and it would be just uner 29" - not MD compliant. I suggest buying an extended recoil/butt pad...that will take it over 29" without the hider/break.

    I have been telling people this for a LONG time and people just huffed about it because they didn't want to pin the device.

    There are several shops that have been selling post 10/1 Tavors and other under 29" guns that were not pinned. There will be problems.

    That's what happens when people are too lazy to actually gunsmith something and make excuses on why things don't have to be done (Because you don't have the experience or tools to do the job right).
     

    AlpineDude67

    Active Member
    Feb 17, 2013
    771
    I am lost on this thread as well.

    Why would anybody go to the trouble of permanently pinning something to the barrel when they can just get a slightly longer buttpad? There is no point in getting the shorter barrel if you have to tack some huge brake onto it to bring it into compliance anyway. So if you only need a 1/2 inch with the longer barrel - then a buttpad replacement has to be the cheaper, easier way to go. Then you can use whatever brake you want, change it out, take it off for cleaning, etc.
     

    rico903

    Ultimate Member
    May 2, 2011
    8,802
    I have been telling people this for a LONG time and people just huffed about it because they didn't want to pin the device.

    There are several shops that have been selling post 10/1 Tavors and other under 29" guns that were not pinned. There will be problems.

    And aslo selling non permanently blocked mags.:tdown:
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    I am lost on this thread as well.

    Why would anybody go to the trouble of permanently pinning something to the barrel when they can just get a slightly longer buttpad? There is no point in getting the shorter barrel if you have to tack some huge brake onto it to bring it into compliance anyway. So if you only need a 1/2 inch with the longer barrel - then a buttpad replacement has to be the cheaper, easier way to go. Then you can use whatever brake you want, change it out, take it off for cleaning, etc.

    If you were to do that, the buttpad must be permanently attached. Otherwise the rifle is still non-compliant according to the 29" minimum OAL. Buttpads can be taken off, dontcha know?
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    If you were to do that, the buttpad must be permanently attached. Otherwise the rifle is still non-compliant according to the 29" minimum OAL. Buttpads can be taken off, dontcha know?

    Why? Stocks aren't pinned on currently. (For an AR) Lift the handle, slip it off, and your OAL shrinks by a LOT. A shotgun stock comes off w/ one screw. The ATF length determination says nothing about stocks being permanently attached. Just the muzzle device.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Why? Stocks aren't pinned on currently. (For an AR) Lift the handle, slip it off, and your OAL shrinks by a LOT. A shotgun stock comes off w/ one screw. The ATF length determination says nothing about stocks being permanently attached. Just the muzzle device.

    The same logic applies to the telescoping stock being extended for measurement of OAL, and removable butt pads must be removed to measure the OAL. A telescoping stock has the ability to extend the length of the platform, so they measure the maximum that the OAL could be with the stock extended. Do the reverse with a platform that has removable butt pads. Take the pads off and measure minimum OAL, because the user will probably just take them off after purchase, and in doing so, be in possession of a rifle that is less than 29" OAL. We aren't talking about ATF, we are talking about MSP and how they would probably do it.
     

    AlpineDude67

    Active Member
    Feb 17, 2013
    771
    So even if that is right - buttpad with screws holding it on is no different than a stock. Hell locktite and then strip the screw heads if that is what it takes. Who cares about an extra half inch of butt pad? I assumed it would have to be something more permanent than one of those friction slip on ones.
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    The way I understand the Recoil Pad/Butt Pad issue is attachment.

    For example a slip over Limbsaver Recoil Pad would not count as its not part of the firearm. A Slip Over M4 Pad would not count towards OAL as its not part of the firearm.


    If a Recoil Pad is screwed into the stock wether it be wood or plastic, glued on, or if the pad is part of the mechanical design it counts.

    For example the PS90 recoil pad is critical to the function of the firearm and is only about 1/2" thick. There was a company that used to make a much longer pad which was all one piece. Adding something like that would count for OAL, BUT taking a limbsaver slip on and pushing it on the gun would not count for OAL.

    Magpul has extended pads for several of their stocks. They screw in and would count toward the OAL as they are part of the stock.

    Basically if its glued on, screws on or is a replacement part for the integral part of the firearm it would count. If its a slip on it wouldn't count.
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    Basically if its glued on, screws on or is a replacement part for the integral part of the firearm it would count. If its a slip on it wouldn't count.

    Ok, I see the confusion. I was talking about screw on buttpads/extensions. Those are the only kind I have. I forgot about the temporary slip-on kind. I can see how those wouldn't count.
     

    mrozowjj

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 13, 2008
    2,247
    Seattle-ish WA
    I don't know of anyone making longer buttpads for the tavor. Your best bet is to find a compensator or flash hider or whatever you like that makes the gun long enough and have a gunsmith pin and weld it. Or just get in a time machine and buy one a year ago. That's what I did.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Anyone happen to know if the adjustable buttpad on the PRS counts towards OAL? It'd be cool if someone had a carbine stock that had a extendable buttpad that could be used for an extra inch or two.

    Actually, that sounds pretty cool in general. Better cheek weld potential when you can keep the stock close in to the rifle but push the buttpad out. Surprised no one's made one... I guess the UBR is kinda like that, but I think it's overly heavy the way it does it.
     

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