Overwatch rifle- help me build one.

trbon8r · Oct 28, 2014

I'd rather have a rifle that is .85 MOA versus .75 MOA and know it will work every time I pull the trigger. The numbers I just threw out are sort of from the hip but you get the point. An AR-10 is an accurate rifle but will never ever have the reliability of an M14.

I'd do an M14 with a rear lug receiver. Send the rifle to Derrick Martin at Accuracy Speaks. Get a front lug welded on and have the action bedded. Have them build it with a McMillan stock, Krieger barrel, unitized gas system, and Sadlak scope mount. You will be happy.

Forget the people that carp about the problems with bedding an M14. With a double lug receiver the modern bedding compounds used now will last the lifetime of the barrel.

Then again the choice is a little more obvious for me. About 15 years ago CMP was selling M14 parts for cheap and I stacked them deep. It's a little tougher now.

erwos · Oct 28, 2014

240 towles said:
This guy claims to get sub .75 MOA out of a STG-58 after warm up with match ammo
http://fnfal.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=3194466

He's either posting a cherry-picked group, or has a one-in-a-million rifle. FALs are not consistently that accurate. It is not a good choice for a precision rifle. No FAL enthusiast will ever claim a stock FAL is a sub-MOA rifle.

Further, the G3 set trigger is not appropriate for anything but a bench gun. It's not a bad option to have if you shoot bench, but it's not what you would use in combat.

Face it: the big 3 western Cold War battle rifles were no great shakes in terms of accuracy out of the box.

trbon8r · Oct 28, 2014

erwos said:
He's either posting a cherry-picked group, or has a one-in-a-million rifle. FALs are not consistently that accurate. It is not a good choice for a precision rifle. No FAL enthusiast will ever claim a stock FAL is a sub-MOA rifle.

Further, the G3 set trigger is not appropriate for anything but a bench gun. It's not a bad option to have if you shoot bench, but it's not what you would use in combat.

Face it: the big 3 western Cold War battle rifles were no great shakes in terms of accuracy out of the box.

Pretty much. None of the big 3 will do that right out of the box. Then again the average box stock SCAR 17, AR-10, Colt 901 etc. won't do that either.

To get that level of accuracy it requires a match conditioned firearm, unless like you said it is a one in a million rifle.

outrider58 · Oct 28, 2014

So, I'm lazy. Haven't read through the whole thread. Bann me. What about an MK-12? Suppressed.

Jed195 · Oct 28, 2014

Just my 2 cents but having used an M14 for overwatch now and again in Somalia, I can attest to its accuracy as well as handling the heat and dust over there. Mine had a glass bedded woodland camoflage stock and was a National Match rifle before being brought into the Designated Marksman section of the armory.

I'd put a Blackfeather RS stock on and M1a and scope it and that'd be that. Even my Socom 16 with some glass on it can reach out and touch someone, even with the 16 inch barrel!

SCARCQB · Oct 29, 2014

Jed195 said:
Just my 2 cents but having used an M14 for overwatch now and again in Somalia, I can attest to its accuracy as well as handling the heat and dust over there. Mine had a glass bedded woodland camoflage stock and was a National Match rifle before being brought into the Designated Marksman section of the armory.

I'd put a Blackfeather RS stock on and M1a and scope it and that'd be that. Even my Socom 16 with some glass on it can reach out and touch someone, even with the 16 inch barrel!

Im definitely going to turn one of my M1As into an overwatch rifle. A custom AR10 will also be built shortly. ill have to work on optics and a suppressor soon.

Jaybeez · Oct 29, 2014

SCARCQB said:
Overwatch is a military tactic that places a rifleman/ marksman in a strategic point within the battles to provide accurate fire to team members from a distance, usually from an elevated firing position and a hidden vector.

Sometimes can be interchanged with a DMR/ Sniper support. but overwatchers need to be able to change roles in an instant, from providing support fire to being in the front of the battlefield.( recon or scouting)

With this in mind.... My next project is the ideal overwatch rifle.

What do you think about this start

Semi auto
20 round mag
.75 MOA capable
308 NATO
magnified optics
Bipod
match trigger
Reliable
Railed to accomodate NV devices for night ops
800 meter plus effective range
Anti materiel( effective against vehicles and armored personnel)
Suppressor adaptable

The initial platforms that comes into mind are:
M1A
AR10
SCAR17
PTR-91
FAL
VEPR308/ SAIGA308

just buy the lwrc reapr

you're going to need lots of upper rail for you NV, assuming a day scope behind a clip on.

pbharvey · Oct 29, 2014

I'd love to come to one of your neighborhood watch meetings. I bet they're amazing. :innocent0

SCARCQB · Oct 29, 2014

pbharvey said:
I'd love to come to one of your neighborhood watch meetings. I bet they're amazing.

third thursday of the month.. In my garage.

( having a lot of military, retired mil, active and retired LEOs as neighbors allow me to sleep well at night)

We also have a serious defense strategy for our neighborhood.

SCARCQB · Oct 30, 2014

I just ordered an ATN X-sight digital day/ night 5-18x scope for one of my m1a EBRs

This should give me a bit of night fighting ability while building my Overwatch rifle.

Digital night vision is getting very competitive with gen 2 nv scopes at the fraction of the cost of intensifier tube based systems.

Jaybeez · Oct 30, 2014

SCARCQB said:
I just ordered an ATN X-sight digital day/ night 5-18x scope for one of my m1a EBRs

This should give me a bit of night fighting ability while building my Overwatch rifle.

Digital night vision is getting very competitive with gen 2 nv scopes at the fraction of the cost of intensifier tube based systems.

No. No, digital is not competitive with gen 2. You should cancel your order. For $800 you are 2/3 of the way to a pvs4, a real military scope with amazing lenes and built to handle 308 recoil. you're at half the price of a used pvs14 gen 3 which would make you really regret buying digital.

Digital is almost completely useless without a full to half moon, in an open field, and in those conditions you can see almost as well with your naked eye. under tree cover or a cloudy moonless sky, you need supplimental illumination and performance will be on par with gen 1 or less.

Indiana Jones · Oct 30, 2014

SR25 or clone thereof.

AssMan · Oct 30, 2014

FNAR or Sig 716 DMR

SCARCQB · Oct 30, 2014

Darn it,,,, jaybeez

Okay. Just cancelled my order.

I'll have to be patient and save for. Pvs14.

outrider58 · Oct 30, 2014

Are we talking urban over watch or war zone over watch? Seems like this job might call for three rifles and a spotter:
1) M-4 or a variant(Mk-12 etc) for close support. Suppressed?
2) scoped 308 semi-auto(pick a favorite)
3) And for the long work, I like a bolt gun built on a Rem.700 action, maybe 338 Lapua
I'm not a big fan of "what should I do/get" questions but, I realize the point the OP is posing here though will avoid details.

zombiehunter · Oct 30, 2014

SCARCQB said:
This is basically a rifle that will be used to hunt hogs( civy use) at night. And double as a long range Shtf rifle. I really don't have a spotter, just need to be able to defend a bugout place from folks armed with Ar 15s from a distance.

Not for military use. But to be used in military tactics in a Overwatch role. What sucks about self defense is that you will most likely have to do it by yourself.

So distance is my friend, a rifle that can interdict at extended ranges, covertly , that can turn cover into concealment , deliver a high volume of accurate fire is a game changer. I just need to be a step ahead of the perp armed with an MSR.

Exactly what I'm looking to turn my M1A into lol

SCARCQB said:
I have a couple of sage ebr-m1a that are customized with Krieger medium wt barrels. They are accurate enough to produce sub moa groups. But heavy as a main battle tank.

Also I'm stuck with clip on or dedicated nv optics. I want to use a pvs14

So pretty. I haven't researched NV optics but they intrigue me. I need to look through some good glass at night and see what I see.

SCARCQB said:
Ebr groups at 100 yards. .65" group

HAHAHAHAHA it looks like the sloth from the Ice Age movies.

clandestine said:
I have seen many ruined triggers from him. It may feel good but the stoning work, engagement and reliability is horrendous.

^^What doesn't this guy know?

Jaybeez · Oct 30, 2014

SCARCQB said:
Darn it,,,, jaybeez

Okay. Just cancelled my order.

I'll have to be patient and save for. Pvs14.

Always go gen 3.

You can consider gen 2 if it's 50% off the new cost or in a unique quality housing, like a pvs4.

Gen 1 is for your toddler or russian ak47 retro build.

never spend more than $110 on digital.

mopar92 · Oct 30, 2014

Scar APEX gun parts has some used PVS 14s. By the description used by a PMC in durka durka stan. So anti Jihad tested anti Jihad approved.

dreadpirate · Oct 30, 2014

outrider58 said:
And for the long work, I like a bolt gun built on a Rem.700 action, maybe 338 Lapua

Why not a bolt gun?? And carry an M4 style carbine as a backup??? Or is that too my much weight??

SCARCQB · Oct 30, 2014

dreadpirate said:
Why not a bolt gun?? And carry an M4 style carbine as a backup??? Or is that too my much weight??

Not really a bolt gun fan. I have a couple of rem700s. Too heavy,slow to reload, can't use it for CQB. Just in case

Overwatch rifle- help me build one.

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