Seizure for Safekeeping?

alucard0822 · Jun 11, 2014

CypherPunk said:
I have two thoughts on this...

First, why do so many prohibited persons (half of all seizures, according to the article) possess firearms with impunity?

Second, the ability to transfer and have a handgun permit holder or designated collector take immediate possession would seem like a good reason to argue the removal of the 7-day waiting period.

Good chance the increase isn't an actual increase, but different stat data, usually the case with a change that big, especially in Baltimore. Lots of data counts "incidents" with multiple victims as 1, accidental or suicide deaths that probably aren't and so on. Considering they claim 1/2 were stolen, they are probably counting ALL voluntary surrenders, basically get caught committing a crime, "voluntarily" surrender the gun when it is discovered on someone at the crime scene, or "surrender" guns when police raid a house with a drug warrant, plenty of possibilities.

rob-cubed · Jun 11, 2014

shaddydan said:
An attorney came to my club and said a trust would keep the police off my guns. If somehow I became prohibited, the guns go to the trustee. If it's a minor, they go to someone else until the minor can lawfully own them. IANAL

Interesting. For non-regulated items this makes sense, but not sure how SB-281 affects this. Unless a now-prohibited firearm is already owned by the trust, I'm not sure you could transfer possession into it and to a trustee--unless that person is related and could claim inheritance law. IANAL of course.

Personally, I'd leave my toys at a family member's house out-of-state. Out of reach of both our awful state gun laws and the LEOs that are tasked with enforcing them.

jehu · Jun 12, 2014

Put in the evidence room for safe keeping? We all no that nothing disapears from those rooms. :rolleyes:

pcfixer · Jun 12, 2014

Give me a few boxes of ammo and I'll hold all the guns you give me!!!

Squaregrouper · Jun 12, 2014

daNattyFatty said:
Just curious, how did the conversation go? How did they bring the topic up? How did they ask? Was the tone threatening? Etc

Also, and this is not an attempt to monday morning quarterback, but did you decline at any time? If so, were you talked into it with veiled threats of charges or a 2am no knock? Again, just curious and only want to know to satisfy said curiosity.

They (meaning all 6-7 of them) walked in to my house upon my opening of the door. I won't say I was pushed out of the way, but I wasn't stopping their entry without being quite physical- which I wasn't prepared to do in that situation.
They stated (not verbatim, but close)... "they needed to take my guns out to the patrol car until we (all) get this cleared up. Once we know everything is on the up and up, we'll bring them back inside." They didn't ransack my apt, but they definitely were looking through my stuff- beyond the scope of where my firearms were stored. What I didn't realize at the time was that the patrol car with my firearms had already left by the time their questioning was complete.
My psycho ex obviously told them I had firearms (their first question was where are the guns? Not do you have any guns). I'm sure she also said I made threats- why else would that many city cops travel from Highlandtown/Canton to Mt. Washington?

We can all be Monday morning quarterbacks, but believe me- when they barge in to your house in a group, you need to decide- quickly- how you want the situation to go. I didn't want a wooden shampoo or to get tazed- let alone shot. They were obviously on high alert for this call and things could/would have gone downhill very quickly had I not complied.

Like I said before, I will not allow on duty police to ever enter my home again without a warrant.

Inigoes · Jun 12, 2014

squaregrouper said:
They (meaning all 6-7 of them) walked in to my house upon my opening of the door. I won't say I was pushed out of the way, but I wasn't stopping their entry without being quite physical- which I wasn't prepared to do in that situation.
They stated (not verbatim, but close)... "they needed to take my guns out to the patrol car until we (all) get this cleared up. Once we know everything is on the up and up, we'll bring them back inside." They didn't ransack my apt, but they definitely were looking through my stuff- beyond the scope of where my firearms were stored. What I didn't realize at the time was that the patrol car with my firearms had already left by the time their questioning was complete.
My psycho ex obviously told them I had firearms (their first question was where are the guns? Not do you have any guns). I'm sure she also said I made threats- why else would that many city cops travel from Highlandtown/Canton to Mt. Washington?

We can all be Monday morning quarterbacks, but believe me- when they barge in to your house in a group, you need to decide- quickly- how you want the situation to go. I didn't want a wooden shampoo or to get tazed- let alone shot. They were obviously on high alert for this call and things could/would have gone downhill very quickly had I not complied.

Like I said before, I will not allow on duty police to ever enter my home again without a warrant.

Always remember, police are under no circumstance, required to tell you the truth.

Lying is called an investigative tool.

Brooklyn · Jun 13, 2014

squaregrouper said:
They (meaning all 6-7 of them) walked in to my house upon my opening of the door. I won't say I was pushed out of the way, but I wasn't stopping their entry without being quite physical- which I wasn't prepared to do in that situation.
They stated (not verbatim, but close)... "they needed to take my guns out to the patrol car until we (all) get this cleared up. Once we know everything is on the up and up, we'll bring them back inside." They didn't ransack my apt, but they definitely were looking through my stuff- beyond the scope of where my firearms were stored. What I didn't realize at the time was that the patrol car with my firearms had already left by the time their questioning was complete.
My psycho ex obviously told them I had firearms (their first question was where are the guns? Not do you have any guns). I'm sure she also said I made threats- why else would that many city cops travel from Highlandtown/Canton to Mt. Washington?

We can all be Monday morning quarterbacks, but believe me- when they barge in to your house in a group, you need to decide- quickly- how you want the situation to go. I didn't want a wooden shampoo or to get tazed- let alone shot. They were obviously on high alert for this call and things could/would have gone downhill very quickly had I not complied.

Like I said before, I will not allow on duty police to ever enter my home again without a warrant.

Were the weapons locked? It may be relevant to a future case.

rico903 · Jun 13, 2014

fred2207 said:
Always remember; "the police can lie to you during any investigation and they are not breaking the law----however, if you lie to the police during an investigation, you can be charged with a crime"...

What a country, eh?

Apd09 · Jun 13, 2014

rico903 said:
What a country, eh?

Hence my post. Always refuse to answer any question without an attorney present.

Sent from a galaxy far, far, away....

Squaregrouper · Jun 13, 2014

Brooklyn said:
Were the weapons locked? It may be relevant to a future case.

No. They were all in cases in my bedroom closet. When I bought my house, a safe was purchased soon after.

llkoolkeg · Jun 13, 2014

squaregrouper said:
They (meaning all 6-7 of them) walked in to my house upon my opening of the door. I won't say I was pushed out of the way, but I wasn't stopping their entry without being quite physical- which I wasn't prepared to do in that situation.[snip]

We can all be Monday morning quarterbacks, but believe me- when they barge in to your house in a group, you need to decide- quickly- how you want the situation to go. I didn't want a wooden shampoo or to get tazed- let alone shot. They were obviously on high alert for this call and things could/would have gone downhill very quickly had I not complied.

Like I said before, I will not allow on duty police to ever enter my home again without a warrant.

There is a reason I paid more to have extra-strong deadbolts, 4-bolt strikeplates and these marvelous little additions on my exterior doors.

Brooklyn · Jun 13, 2014

squaregrouper said:
No. They were all in cases in my bedroom closet. When I bought my house, a safe was purchased soon after.

Ok thanks.. sorry you went through all that.

teratos · Jun 13, 2014

llkoolkeg said:
There is a reason I paid more to have extra-strong deadbolts, 4-bolt strikeplates and these marvelous little additions on my exterior doors.

How is the door frame?

llkoolkeg · Jun 13, 2014

teratos said:
How is the door frame?

Not steel yet, I'm afraid, but the extra-long grade 8 bolts from the hardware store screw completely through the frame and into the surrounding stud-work.

I also wish my place was really brick instead of just wood-framed with brick facade but currently I'm working on a poor man's budget.

pcfixer · Jun 13, 2014

I have put extra long screws thru the sticker plate and thru the hinges.
Also for added protection the power room bathroom door opens against the front door
knob to act as a full door stoper. I've tried it, It's very difficult to get in the door.
Only way would be to use brute force to knock the door off its hinges and bust the door in half. that would take some time and alot of noise.

Docster · Jun 13, 2014

This points to an important point about MENTAL preparation. I'm always reinforcing to my wife to NEVER let LE enter the house for any reason without a warrant when I'm not there. As well, one must mentally prepare themselves for the possiblility of LE coming to their house for any reason. My mental exercise is 'who is there? (LEO's), don't open the door all the way, ask their purpose; if they're warning about odd things going on in the neighborhood, thank them and 'have a safe day'; request a warrant if they are asking questions or want to come in, and if necessary tell them you won't speak without counsel.

Going over things in your head occasionally is no different than training with a weapon, only this weapon is mental preparation.

Yes, never voluntarily give up anything........

rico903 · Jun 14, 2014

Apd09 said:
Hence my post. Always refuse to answer any question without an attorney present.

Sent from a galaxy far, far, away....

Yeah, they'll lie their ass off to get in a house, threaten etc. That's why I keep a lawyers cell # in my phone. The thing that sucks is a woman can say anything she wants and it is gospel. No recourse either most of the time. Once you give anything to a cop it''ll take you time and money to MAYBE get it back.
I'm far from anti LEO but have too many ex LEO friends who won't own Class III or a C&R because they don't want to give the permission for LEOs to search their house at any time. Don't trust their own.

fabsroman · Jun 14, 2014

gungate said:
This answers my question, "How/When do you get them back?". I suspect it will be even harder if you have anything at all questionable on your record. Anyone that voluntarily does this is a fool. (not calling you a fool, I am sure you learned your lesson)

If you read the article, only 50% of the firearms taken for safekeeping are ever returned. They investigate the firearms and the owner before returning the firearms. Some end up stolen, some owners are not fit to have firearms, and Lord knows what else they come up with.

Apd09 · Jun 14, 2014

rico903 said:
Yeah, they'll lie their ass off to get in a house, threaten etc. That's why I keep a lawyers cell # in my phone. The thing that sucks is a woman can say anything she wants and it is gospel. No recourse either most of the time. Once you give anything to a cop it''ll take you time and money to MAYBE get it back.
I'm far from anti LEO but have too many ex LEO friends who won't own Class III or a C&R because they don't want to give the permission for LEOs to search their house at any time. Don't trust their own.

That's exactly what this cop says, if you've never seen this it's a little long 40 minutes but it's a law school professor teaching his class to never talk to police and then has a detective come in and say the exact same thing.

http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc

Sent from a galaxy far, far, away....

Corporal Doug · Jun 14, 2014

Does anyone here agree that SOME people in our society should not be able to breath, let alone be trusted with guns? Seizing guns for safekeeping is a good idea for some folks. Maybe not for anyone here necessarily, but a lot of you here cry for mental health upgrades in our country. Those two sovereign freaks in Nevada recently should've had their guns removed, but since they showed no signs to the police that there was something clearly wrong, the police had no choice but to leave.

It's truly beyond me what some of you want us to do to combat mentally unstable people. The same people who use guns to kill others and make more band and laws that make our lives miserable. I'm not saying take guns from everyone who has an argument, but if there are legit concerns about a person then some kind of steps need to be taken. And not any one law or policy can fix every single situation.

Oh and yes we lie during investigations. People lie to us more, so if you don't like the one tool we are allowed to use to solve already difficult investigations, go kick rocks with flip flops. Or invent a magic crystal ball that solves crimes for us so we don't inadvertently violate someone's rights.

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