CT Supremes Rule batons/dirks protected under 2A

press1280 · Dec 16, 2014

http://jud.ct.gov/external/supapp/Cases/AROcr/CR315/315CR113.pdf

Somewhat limited holding that protects vehicle transport to the home, nevertheless the court at least held to a strong intermediate scrutiny, unlike other courts who are swayed by the words "public safety".

Hat tip to Librarian at Calguns for this.

danb · Dec 16, 2014

Thanks for posting. I wonder if this will influence the MA case (Taser ban).

WeaponsCollector · Dec 16, 2014

Such extreme idiocy involved with this case, what a pathetic bunch of morons in that jury to convict the guy for having a knife and a baton in his car. I'm glad at least the Ct. Supreme Court has some sense.

Dogabutila · Dec 17, 2014

WeaponsCollector said:
Such extreme idiocy involved with this case, what a pathetic bunch of morons in that jury to convict the guy for having a knife and a baton in his car. I'm glad at least the Ct. Supreme Court has some sense.

It's against the law, and many people don't know about nullification and they aren't allowed to hear about it. :-/

wolfwood · Dec 17, 2014

danb said:
Thanks for posting. I wonder if this will influence the MA case (Taser ban).

I already filed it in the Hawaii taser/knife case.

ryan_j · Dec 17, 2014

Nice. NJ bans these outright. I wonder if we could get some relief too.

Minuteman · Dec 17, 2014

ryan_j said:
Nice. NJ bans these outright. I wonder if we could get some relief too.

Dirks are specifically considered weapons in Maryland, although there isn't a really good definition, most would consider a double bladed dagger a dirk. I don't know of a test case; but if you have a wear and carry permit, you are exempt from the prohibitation against carrying a concealed fixed blade. In the right hands a concealed fixed blade can be an awesome defensive tool.

Collasable baton is different all together in Maryland; it's not specifically mentioned, but it could be considered a dangerous weapon if carried with the intent to harm. Malice is hard to prove, there are versions that are sold as tire checkers. Really anything could be used or considered a weapon, I'd say it would depend on the totality of the situation. I'm not aware of any test cases. Baton can be an excellent defensive tool. I've ask a lot of guys very well trained in knife & stick fighting, most said they would prefer a collapsible baton above any defensive tool (other than a gun). There are good threads here on both knife and baton legalities. I'm not a lawyer.

ryan_j · Dec 17, 2014

Minuteman said:
Dirks are specifically considered weapons in Maryland, although there isn't a really good definition, most would consider a double bladed dagger a dirk. I don't know of a test case; but if you have a wear and carry permit, you are exempt from the prohibitation against carrying a concealed fixed blade. In the right hands a concealed fixed blade can be an awesome defensive tool.

Collasable baton is different all together in Maryland; it's not specifically mentioned, but it could be considered a dangerous weapon if carried with the intent to harm. Malice is hard to prove, there are versions that are sold as tire checkers. Really anything could be used or considered a weapon, I'd say it would depend on the totality of the situation. I'm not aware of any test cases. Baton can be an excellent defensive tool. I've ask a lot of guys very well trained in knife & stick fighting, most said they would prefer a collapsible baton above any defensive tool (other than a gun). There are good threads here on both knife and baton legalities. I'm not a lawyer.

In NJ they are banned outright, no exemptions for possession in the home or anywhere else.

Definition in NJSA 2C:39-1

r. "Weapon" means anything readily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury. The term includes, but is not limited to, all (1) firearms, even though not loaded or lacking a clip or other component to render them immediately operable; (2) components which can be readily assembled into a weapon; (3) gravity knives, switchblade knives, daggers, dirks, stilettos, or other dangerous knives, billies, blackjacks, bludgeons, metal knuckles, sandclubs, slingshots, cesti or similar leather bands studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood; and (4) stun guns; and any weapon or other device which projects, releases, or emits tear gas or any other substance intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or permanent injury through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air.

And the above designated weapons are banned in NJSA 2C:39-5

d. Other weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

There are only permits for antique cannons, long guns and handguns and and specific exemptions for those.

DanGuy48 · Dec 17, 2014

Minuteman said:
Dirks are specifically considered weapons in Maryland, although there isn't a really good definition, most would consider a double bladed dagger a dirk. I don't know of a test case; but if you have a wear and carry permit, you are exempt from the prohibitation against carrying a concealed fixed blade.

I have wondered about this for some time. So you are saying a concealed carry permit applies to concealed, fixed blade knifes as well as a firearm? I don't have a permit but it had seemed to me that a concealed carry "weapon" permit should broadly apply to anything Maryland defines as a weapon. Any other feedback on this?

danb · Dec 17, 2014

Minuteman said:
Dirks are specifically considered weapons in Maryland, although there isn't a really good definition, most would consider a double bladed dagger a dirk. I don't know of a test case; but if you have a wear and carry permit, you are exempt from the prohibitation against carrying a concealed fixed blade. In the right hands a concealed fixed blade can be an awesome defensive tool.

Collasable baton is different all together in Maryland; it's not specifically mentioned, but it could be considered a dangerous weapon if carried with the intent to harm. Malice is hard to prove, there are versions that are sold as tire checkers. Really anything could be used or considered a weapon, I'd say it would depend on the totality of the situation. I'm not aware of any test cases. Baton can be an excellent defensive tool. I've ask a lot of guys very well trained in knife & stick fighting, most said they would prefer a collapsible baton above any defensive tool (other than a gun). There are good threads here on both knife and baton legalities. I'm not a lawyer.

Also, "as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger, subject to the right of the court in an action arising under this section to judge the reasonableness of the carrying of the weapon, and the proper occasion for carrying it, under the evidence in the case. "

Some jurisdictions in MD (Baltimore City) have additional restrictions on Tasers and knives.

There have been a couple of items in the news recently in HoCo about would-be victims fending off robbers with knives.

Some of the village centers have gone downhill recently with the surge in heroin. If I have to go after dark, I apprehend a lot of danger. :innocent0

navyis2 · Dec 17, 2014

We're starting to see some really positive movement with judges all over the country. Too bad we are in for a long hall with Blake in charge of the 4th. This will unfortunately delay any positive movement for this area for the foreseeable future.

Minuteman · Dec 17, 2014

DanGuy48 said:
I have wondered about this for some time. So you are saying a concealed carry permit applies to concealed, fixed blade knifes as well as a firearm? I don't have a permit but it had seemed to me that a concealed carry "weapon" permit should broadly apply to anything Maryland defines as a weapon. Any other feedback on this?

Sure. Again I'm not an attorney, but I can read, and this subject is throughly discussed in these forums. There's a lot of 'grey' area in the law, but none on this point (pun intended); you absolutely are allowed to carry a concealed fixed blade if you have a wear and carry permit. I frequently inform people that even if you don't plan to carry a firearm on a regular basis, go ahead and get the wear and carry permit it exempts you from portions of the law that could otherwise get you in hot water. Adds a lot of legitimacy too if you were to ever be stopped and questioned by the police. Contrary to what some say most police (I know many), are very reasonable people and do have flexibility to consider circumstances and exercise good judgement. This is a good thing.

danb said:
Also, "as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger, subject to the right of the court in an action arising under this section to judge the reasonableness of the carrying of the weapon, and the proper occasion for carrying it, under the evidence in the case. "

Some jurisdictions in MD (Baltimore City) have additional restrictions on Tasers and knives.

There have been a couple of items in the news recently in HoCo about would-be victims fending off robbers with knives.

Some of the village centers have gone downhill recently with the surge in heroin. If I have to go after dark, I apprehend a lot of danger.

Yes. Very true. I agree with this advice too. So in other words, if you were to use something to defend yourself, it is within the law that if you were determined to be a reasonable person who had apprehended fear; you are not in violation of the law. This same language is used regarding firearms. I do not recommend carrying a firearm without a permit. Yes it's just a misdemeanor, but could result in very serious consequences down the line.

In full disclosure, I am licensed to instruct the wear and carry class in Maryland (& HQL), but I'm speaking now for myself, my own (current) understanding of the policy and law. Don't take anything you read online as legal advice.

I hope that was helpful, most people don't give straight answers anymore.

Tomcat · Dec 17, 2014

Minuteman said:
Dirks are specifically considered weapons in Maryland, although there isn't a really good definition, most would consider a double bladed dagger a dirk.

So when I wear my kilt I can't have my dirk?

Minuteman · Dec 17, 2014

hitwtom said:
So when I wear my kilt I can't have my dirk?

Concealed fixed blades prohibited (without a wear and carry permit,.. police & many other exceptions). Open carry of fixed blades are ok as long as not carried with intent to harm. Apprehended fear is an exception. Without a wear/carry permit; dirks, Bowie knives, throwing stars and "switchblades", are considered weapons. Sorry that sounds fuzzy I know; I don't think anyone would grief you, as long as you were not menacing, but without a permit, I'd say it's technically illegal.

Hey, there are several folks in these forums that know this stuff much better than me. No case law that I'm aware of, so trust your gut.

danb · Dec 17, 2014

hitwtom said:
So when I wear my kilt I can't have my dirk?

Be sure your kilt covers your dirk, please

Minuteman · Dec 17, 2014

danb said:
Be sure your kilt covers your dirk, please

Good advice.

Knuckle Dragger · Dec 17, 2014

danb said:
Thanks for posting. I wonder if this will influence the MA case (Taser ban).

We're hoping that Caetano's attorney files a notice of supplemental authority.

Bald Fat Guy · Dec 18, 2014

Use a "dirk" that happens to have only one sharpened edge, make sure the handle protrudes above your sock and your kilt is no so long as to cover your socks, and you should be OK.

rambling_one · Dec 18, 2014

Some Scots are never without a sgian-dubh.

Tomcat · Dec 18, 2014

Bald Fat Guy said:
Use a "dirk" that happens to have only one sharpened edge, make sure the handle protrudes above your sock and your kilt is no so long as to cover your socks, and you should be OK.

If I wore a kilt that short everyone would know what is worn under a kilt

CT Supremes Rule batons/dirks protected under 2A

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

dont be a dumbass

EXTREME GUN OWNER

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

dont be a dumbass

im a grown ass man

Member

Formerly Known As HITWTOM

Member

dont be a dumbass

Member

Active Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Formerly Known As HITWTOM

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics