HK VP9 owner's and potential owners- who's new to HK? If not what other models?

Hawkeye · Dec 17, 2014

thai said:
The fact of the matter is HK is a few levels higher than Walther.

How? Please provide some objective facts to back this up, or there's more than one fanboi operating in this thread.

They don't need to copy anything ever created by Walther. If anything Walther's PPQ ergonomics and slide designed was copied direclty off the P30,

No, it wasn't. The PPQ is a development of the P99RAD / P99Q, which were themselves developments of the P99. There are some cosmetic similarities between the two, but I don't think, objectively, that there's anything on the P30 which was so totally different from every other pistol out there that you can point to it and say that Walther or anyone else "copied" it.

which took it's designs from the HK45 which was in cooperation with a few notable operators who has actually seec combat action.

H&K have traded on their "it's for Operators!" thing for years, and while that in and of itself doesn't diminish their products, to think that any of the major manufacturers who make pistols which are used for LE and Military use all over the world design and test the things without input from people who know what they're talking about is naive.

In the end, they're both fantastic pistols. I love my HK, and in fact it's the only .45 I've held on to through a conversion to 9mm only for my centerfire pistols. I also own a PPS and love it for different reasons. I'd like to own a PPQ for even more different reasons.

aquaman · Dec 17, 2014

thai said:
That is some good old fashion positive thinking!

I am sure Walthers PPQ is a decent pistol. The made a great product at a very cheap price. They are a step better than Glock. Unfortunately they do not have the market share of Glocks.

I am mostly just bustin Aquaman's balls. When someone previously asked about the VP9, he stupidly quipped " the VP9 is just a PPQ". So I smacked him around for being a PPQ fanbois.

The fact of the matter is HK is a few levels higher than Walther. They don't need to copy anything ever created by Walther. If anything Walther's PPQ ergonomics and slide designed was copied direclty off the P30, which took it's designs from the HK45 which was in cooperation with a few notable operators who has actually seec combat action.

I own both, how can I be a fanboi? You made an uneducated commented and I called you out on it. You have no idea what you are talking about. Please post less, k thx

beretta_maven · Dec 17, 2014

aquaman said:
I own both, how can I be a fanboi? You made an uneducated commented and I called you out on it. You have no idea what you are talking about. Please post less, k thx

Gotta agree with you aquaman. I also own several Walthers, plus a couple of HKs: Walther - PPQ M2, PPS, P99C and PPK/S; HK - P2000SK and P30. I think the PPQ and the P30 are pretty comparable, with the edge in trigger to the PPQ and a slight edge in ergos to the P30. Love my Walthers, but also love my HKs. Not a fanboy of either - just like the guns for what they are.

On a side note, I did briefly consider selling my P30 to get the VP9, but decided that I'd rather just get a little trigger work on the P30 and keep it. The PPQ needs nothing.

thai · Dec 18, 2014

Well damn! Don't y'all come at all at once!

I will admit first and foremost I am an HK "fanboi", I am a card carrying member. I got so tired of mailing in my dues every year, I have decided to bite the bullet and became a lifetime member.

I became an HK fanboi by default actually. I am more accurately a fanboi of anything that is high in quality and well made.

For pistols I am an HK and Sig Sauer fanboi.
For rifles I am an LWRCI IC SPR fanboi.
For bolt action rifles I am a Weatherby Mark V and Sako 75/85 both in long action-Fanboi.
For shotguns, I am a "Benelli" fanboi.
For scopes I am a"Leupold" fanboi.
For binoculars and rangefinders I am a Leica fanboi.
For red dot optics I am a "Aimpoint" fanboi.
For tactical optics I am a Trijicon fanboi.
For sports cars I am a BMW "M" series fanboi.
For my kids education, I am a Catholic School Fanboi!

What can I say, fanboiism is in my heart, and I am unrepentant!

I determine Walther to be a few levels below HK for many reasons. The breadth and scope of scale of business is one. Second, HKs design for almost everything they develop is unmatched, for example, their USP line is in it original form after 20 years.

The VP9 was designed as an evolutionary step after the P30, which took designed cues from the HK45. The Walther PQS or whatever the model may have the frame design of the P99 (which had an ugly design to it) but the lframe

thai · Dec 18, 2014

I only visit MDSHOOTERS when I am using my Samsung Note. So sorry for typos and other grammatical error.

As I was saying the frame of the PPQ was softened up to look more like the P30. Certainly the slide looks to be a near exact copy. Because it lack the big goofy slide of the P99. Sorry guys, my opinion and it does seem to be correct because the goofy slide does not appear on any other of their models.

Regardless my main point of contention is that the VP9 is an evolutionary step in design from the P30 and the HK45. The PPQ may have P99 to take it designs from, but after 15 years that design looks alot more similar to the P30 than the P99. That my friends is irrefutable. And my opinion. :cool:

Oh and Aquaman. :tdown:

Ha, Ha, Ha!

Ender · Dec 18, 2014

Read this thread because I was interested in vp9s but I can't agree with a lot of the points you just made.

- First, how does breadth and scope of business determine the level of a gun? If anything it would be quality of the firearm, by just selling the most volume that makes hks several levels above walther? Would you call hk several levels above holland and holland because I would consider anything they H&H makes several levels above hk in terms of quality but they probably don't sell nearly as much. Glocks probably outsells everything in terms of handguns, not to mention that hk is facing bankruptcy so they can't be selling that much.

- Second, not everything hk makes is unmatched in designed either, they are just like every other company and they design shitty guns sometimes. For example, the G36. You would think they would put a lot of care into designing a rifle their military uses but it has had a lot of issues that may have gotten some of their own guys killed. It has been in service for close to 18 years now so they have had time to work out the bugs, for more details I included a link.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/german-soldiers-dont-trust-their-battle-rifle-e1070a9a67dc

- Last, you say it is your opinion that it is irrefutable that the PPQ was made to look more similar to the P30. I would refute that, if you look at pictures of P99AS and PPQ next to each other it looks like they just increase slide serrations and size, added rails, and changed the finger grooves. More of a cosmetic update than anything, you could probably still mix up a PPQ and a P99AS if you didn't know what you were looking at.

P99AS left, PPQ right

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Yes hks are used by high end units like SEALs but so are sig mk25s, I think Army SF guys still use berettas and MARSOC use colt 1911s. A lot of companies you would consider levels below hk make guns used by special guys. All that being said I still think hk makes very high quality guns and I respect the brand but the other guys made valid points.

thai · Dec 19, 2014

Hey Ender,
I have very high regards for HK since20 years ago because of what I read, heard, and actually shot one of their pistols and have deemed HK to be of high quality, reliable, accurate, and very well made. This whole argument with HK and Walther was my respone to Aquaman claiming that the VP9 is basically a PPQ but with a trigger that is not as good. And my response was HK does not need to copy anything made by Walther.

HK does not need me to tout any of their successes and well earned reputation. Walther on the other hand has a few dedicated followers that tries and attempts to lift Walthers reputation by criticizing HK. I can sit here and dsipute all the lofty silly claims that are generally unearned by Walther, and at the other spectrum attempts to tarnish HK's reputation by bringing up a disputed and strange issue HK has with the G36.

I never said that HK is perfect in every regards, or that Walther is a crappy firearms manufacturer. I brought up the possibility that if there is any design mimicry going on it would be committed by Walther long before HK would ever have to look back at a company who is really not even a competitor for inspiration.

We will just have to agree to disagree. You all can enjoy your walthers and I will certainly
enjoy my HKs. One last bone for you sheep ( :innocent0

) there will be ; my guess, that there will be more Walther and Glock owners buying their first HK with the introduction of the VP9 (mostly due to economics and cheaper price) then there will be HK owner purchasing a Walther or Glock. Again my supposition.

I don't know why every time when a big manufacturer of more expensive firearms creates something new and affordable for the masses and is potentially becoming a big hit, all the purchasers of the lesser manufacturer and their cheap products, have to attempt degrade and minimize and trivialize the big manufacturers efforts. It just never fails. :sad20:

Sorry for all the smiley faces everyone, but I was led to believe that Walther owners appreciate visual effects.

Minuteman · Dec 19, 2014

I don't own any HK pistols, but I've shot many of them; great guns. The only one I didn't care for was the blocky USP. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_USP

Only based on what I've read, looks like the VP9 might be the best compact made today. I'd love to shoot one. Amazed they retail for so little money.

thai · Dec 19, 2014

Minuteman,
Wait until January or February, I was led to believe that the ongoing rebate program may be running for the VP9. Just a guess from someone who is in the know with HK.

BTW,
The blockiness of the USP is what makes the line so appealing. I find the USP pistols as the most no nonsense of any pistols. 20 years and not a single change since its inception says a lot about the pistols!

Ender · Dec 19, 2014

I'm not putting down hk or trying to argue that they are equal quality guns. I would expect most things from hk to be very well made. My issue was with your rebuttal since some of the claims you made didn't make sense and seemed more fanboy than fact. I am still looking into getting a vp9.

Blaster229 · Dec 19, 2014

Minuteman said:
Only based on what I've read, looks like the VP9 might be the best compact made today. I'd love to shoot one. Amazed they retail for so little money.

The VP9 is not a compact. It's full size. Side by side a G 17 it's the same dimensions.
If it were a compact right now, I'd have one in my hot little hands.

Minuteman · Dec 19, 2014

Blaster229 said:
The VP9 is not a compact. It's full size. Side by side a G 17 it's the same dimensions.
If it were a compact right now, I'd have one in my hot little hands.

I got to handle one at 2A Sales&Supply, it struck me in between a G19 and G17, but a tad bit closer to the compact 19; to each his own. I see this is a commonly discussed topic, here's a great discussion about its size: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553515

I generally prefer compacts, and subcompacts. I consider the P228/229/P07/G19 all compacts; anything bigger, full sized, anything smaller, subcompact.

Blaster229 · Dec 19, 2014

Minuteman said:
I got to handle one at 2A Sales&Supply, it struck me in between a G19 and G17, but a tad bit closer to the compact 19; to each his own. I see this is a commonly discussed topic, here's a great discussion about its size: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553515

I generally prefer compacts, and subcompacts. I consider the P228/229/P07/G19 all compacts; anything bigger, full sized, anything smaller, subcompact.

Hickock45 matched it side by side to a 17 and are identical in size.
You should check your hand size or your eyeball judgement

Size comparison is at 4:50

Minuteman · Dec 19, 2014

Click the link I provided.

thai · Dec 19, 2014

Ender said:
I'm not putting down hk or trying to argue that they are equal quality guns. I would expect most things from hk to be very well made. My issue was with your rebuttal since some of the claims you made didn't make sense and seemed more fanboy than fact. I am still looking into getting a vp9.

I understand, I did not cast aspersions at Walther I just stated that in my opinion HK makes a higher quality pistol than Walther. However you take, we will have to agree to disagree. I don't know if you have an HK, but if you get a VP9 eventually you will get another HK, even though they cost twice as much as a Walther. The quality and trust of an HK usually wins people over.

You use "Fanboi" as a dispariging remark, I do not. In the case with an HK , your term makes no sense because HKs Pistols are of the highest quality. This is fact and not a point of debate. Now if I enjoy Glocks and I criticize your Walther than the "Fanboi" epithet may be appropriate since the two manufacturers are more similar.

The only issue that people have with HKs, you and Aquaman included, is economics and the fact that you need to pay 2 times more for it. If you have not already purchased and HK you won't understand it. But if you do own one I am sure you know what I am talking about, and I bet you are a little more careful with that HK versus a Glock or Walther.

thai · Dec 19, 2014

Minuteman said:
I got to handle one at 2A Sales&Supply, it struck me in between a G19 and G17, but a tad bit closer to the compact 19; to each his own. I see this is a commonly discussed topic, here's a great discussion about its size: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553515

I generally prefer compacts, and subcompacts. I consider the P228/229/P07/G19 all compacts; anything bigger, full sized, anything smaller, subcompact.

Minutemen,
If you value size of a pistol more than the action, striker fired vs. hammer, take a look the HK USP Compact. They are the same size as the P229. I own both and they are exactly the sames size. You can get a light LEM trigger. The compacts come in 9mm, .40/.357sig, and 45 acp.

Minuteman · Dec 20, 2014

Good post and I like the comparison photos.

I've shot both of these guns, the 229 (in all calibers available) more than the USP, I'm not a fan of the USP. The VP9 feels great in the hand, im sure it's a great shooter. If I only owned one "duty sized" handgun it would probably be the VP9. I'm not looking to purchase a handgun anytime soon, and generally prefer to shoot a gun before I buy if possible. Size is not a very important factor, unless it's a concealed carry gun, then it's very important. The Sig Mk25, G17, Sig 226, FN 5.7, are all a tad larger than I would prefer if I could only own one; however and would make great duty or home defense guns.

mikebalt · Dec 20, 2014

I am going to shoot my new vp9 today - I have small hands so changed the backstrap and side panels to small...the trigger feels a bit gritty hopefully just because new and that will work itself out when I put some rounds through it

thai · Dec 21, 2014

You are most welcome Minuteman!

Mike,
Every source that I have read regarding the VP9 has remarked that the trigger is as good as you are gonna get in this type of pistol. I am certain yours will smooth out in short order. Let us know how it goes. I predict that your VP9 will be very accurate!

wailer · Dec 21, 2014

Blaster229 said:
The VP9 is not a compact. It's full size. Side by side a G 17 it's the same dimensions.
If it were a compact right now, I'd have one in my hot little hands.

I thought the VP9's total length was 7.34" Glock 17 was 8.03" and the Glock 19 was 7.36", which comparable to a 19.

HK VP9 owner's and potential owners- who's new to HK? If not what other models?

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