Confirmed: HQL Needed to Take Possession of Handgun After September 30

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  • MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,849
    Somewhere in MD
    Not to worry. The MSP has already made an arbitrary decision to remove the active duty and retired military/national guard exemption requiring the HQL. Despite SB281 being quite specific in this regard, I guess the MSP decided they can just rewrite those parts of the law they don't agree with and remove one of the class distinctions.

    http://www.mdsp.org/Organization/Su...ion/Firearms/HandgunQualificationLicense.aspx
    See the "Exceptions to possession of the HQL License" description.
    Did anyone notice on that page that Live Fire has been added to the HQL training requirement?
    (4) Operation and Handling Demonstration. Orientation component that demonstrates the person’s safe operation and handling of a firearm, to include a “live fire” component in which the applicant safely shoots the weapon. An applicant may not be required to fire in excess of 15 yards during qualifications.

    How is that supposed to work when one cannot "receive" a handgun without an HQL?
     

    fightinbluhen51

    "Quack Pot Call Honker"
    Oct 31, 2008
    8,974
    Did anyone notice on that page that Live Fire has been added to the HQL training requirement?


    How is that supposed to work when one cannot "receive" a handgun without an HQL?
    I guess exempt trainers are going to have to "rent" handguns to students.

    Let us hope they have been ignorant in their "circular logic" that this constitutes a transfer and thus invalidates the HQL.
     

    Fireball

    Active Member
    Mar 5, 2013
    114
    Rising Sun, md
    I suspect that this opinion will encourage some of those "waiting" FFLs to do 8th day release. It's one thing to hold on to a gun for a few months; it's another to hold on to them indefinitely.

    I've already let my FFL know of my intent to demand a refund if I have to obtain a HQL due to MSP backlog. end of sept will be 120 +/- days for me.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Not to worry. The MSP has already made an arbitrary decision to remove the active duty and retired military/national guard exemption requiring the HQL. Despite SB281 being quite specific in this regard, I guess the MSP decided they can just rewrite those parts of the law they don't agree with and remove one of the class distinctions.

    http://www.mdsp.org/Organization/Su...ion/Firearms/HandgunQualificationLicense.aspx
    See the "Exceptions to possession of the HQL License" description.

    We really need to think about paying law enforcement more money so that we can get better help. Then again, a lot of these people get 6 figures already with overtime and such.

    You really have to wonder about this stuff. The live fire requirement is pretty crazy.
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,849
    Somewhere in MD
    I just sent another missive to the 9A Delegation about the "live fire" requirement. Given that they have not deigned to respond to my other questions from last week, I am quickly losing hope that they care at all about transparency in government; which is disappointing, since they gave me the impression of being a solid 2A supporting delegation.

    Phone calls will have to be made when I can find some time in the schedule, since they (and their offices) are not responding to written (letter and email) communications.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I guess exempt trainers are going to have to "rent" handguns to students.
    Oddly enough, SB281 seems to prohibit this unless the instructor owns the range. You aren't allowed to "rent-as-in-taking-off-premises" a handgun unless you have an HQL.

    That page is mostly in line with SB281. The actual phrasing of the safety training course language gives the AG a lot of room to define it.
     

    chappy444

    Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    72
    Not begrudging you (and thanks for your service) but titles of nobility are expressly prohibited by the US Constitution. I have seen some new law theories using this to attack 2A restrictions to these class of people (retired mil, LEO, fed LEO, ect).

    I hope that whoever is on the lawsuit (NRA, w/ amici from MSI/ACG, Dave Hardy, John Lott, SAF, ect), will point this caste system out to the courts. What is good for the goose, should be good for the gander as well.

    not sure if I agree that these groups are being given "titles of nobility". I think the case will be argued that these groups of people have already received firearm training that exceeds the requirement of SB281/HQL (what ever they decide that requirement will be)... for example. in the service I was fingerprinted, I took firearms safety courses with range time, regular requalification, and had a background check, etc. basically I did way more than the HQL (as outlined in the bill) requires. just my two cents...the big picture is that we shouldn't even have to arguing about this type of sh!t because we have the second amendment in the constitution....but I do like your train of thought of using their own BS against them....
     

    elwojo

    File not found: M:/Liberty.exe
    Dec 23, 2012
    678
    Baltimore, Maryland
    This may have been covered already, but it seems that the MSP does not have plans to have the HQL software support ready until 10/1/2013. I've worked on software for the better part of a decade, and I've rarely seen a gov't organization come out with a product "on-time".
    Licensing Division Automation Schedule

    I'm really starting to regret joining GSSF and using the Cop Shop. July 1 Glock "arrival" is starting to look like $100 more to get it maybe by December...

    I suppose on the plus side, I can use the GSSF to get my M1 through the CMP...
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    not sure if I agree that these groups are being given "titles of nobility".

    The "titles of nobility" argument is rock solid on a constitutional basis from the standpoint of being able to demonstrate that natural and civil rights are not reserved for people with such titles. Obviously, such titles could be used and granted as a partisan tool. The underlying principle of "titles of nobility" is little different than the practice of and reasons for deeming people as 3/5ths human. In either case, the purpose is to create serfs/slaves with few or no rights.
     

    Benanov

    PM Bomber
    May 15, 2013
    910
    Shrewsbury, PA
    The "titles of nobility" argument is rock solid on a constitutional basis from the standpoint of being able to demonstrate that natural and civil rights are not reserved for people with such titles. Obviously, such titles could be used and granted as a partisan tool. The underlying principle of "titles of nobility" is little different than the practice of and reasons for deeming people as 3/5ths human. In either case, the purpose is to create serfs/slaves with few or no rights.

    These are professional titles, not titles of nobility. Good luck equating those in court.

    I'm as frustrated as the rest of us but this group needs to stick to arguments that are going to win, not throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks.
     

    Boom Boom

    Hold my beer. Watch this.
    Jul 16, 2010
    16,834
    Carroll
    "Retired" is a professional title now? You're willing to forfeit your rights if you don't have a magic professional title? Jesus, help us.
     

    HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    But not everyone needs an HQL right? Aren't there exceptions like already owning a gun, being LEO, being a firearms instructor, etc?

    TD
    Who Should Apply?









    A person may not purchase, rent, or receive a handgun after October 1, 2013 unless they possess a valid Handgun Qualification License (HQL) issued by the Maryland State Police or qualify for exemption status.

    Exceptions to possession of the HQL License


    1.A Licensed Firearms Manufacturer.
    2.Active law enforcement officer or a person retired in good standing from a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or a local law enforcement agency of the State.
    3.A person purchasing, renting or receiving an antique, curio or relic as defined in federal law.

    Required to have the HQL, but exempt from training component


    1.Someone who completed a Maryland State Police (MSP) approved certified safety course.
    2.Has completed a course of instruction in the competency and safety of firearms as prescribed under Natural Resources Article, §10-301.1, Annotated Code of Maryland.
    3.Is currently a qualified handgun instructor.
    4.Is an honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or National Guard.
    5.Is an employee of an armored car company who has a handgun permit issued by MSP.
    6.Lawfully owns a regulated firearm. If you already own a handgun or assault weapon prior to October 1, 2013, you do not have to complete the training to apply for the Handgun Qualification License.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    Time to chime in.

    You "Titles of Nobility" / "Armchair Constitutionalists" need to get over it and yourselves.

    Only 1 - 1-1/2 percent of the population serve actively in the Military. It's a tough road serving long enough to RETIRE with bennies. I personally worked 70 hours a week or more and when I put to sea it was much, much more. As in no time off other than sleep.

    So. No titles. Just BENNIES.

    Again, get over it.

    or

    Serve and see what it's like.

    or

    Go play Wannabe and polish your commercial AR-15.

    or

    Simply shut-up about it.
     

    spclopr8tr

    Whatchalookinat?
    Apr 20, 2013
    1,793
    TN
    Who Should Apply?
    A person may not purchase, rent, or receive a handgun after October 1, 2013 unless they possess a valid Handgun Qualification License (HQL) issued by the Maryland State Police or qualify for exemption status.

    Exceptions to possession of the HQL License


    1.A Licensed Firearms Manufacturer.
    2.Active law enforcement officer or a person retired in good standing from a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or a local law enforcement agency of the State.
    3.A person purchasing, renting or receiving an antique, curio or relic as defined in federal law.

    You quoted this from the MSP web site, not SB281, right? If so, you are just perpetuating bad info from MSP.

    From SB281 (the HQL section):

    5–117.1
    (A) THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO:

    (1) A LICENSED FIREARMS MANUFACTURER;

    (2) A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR PERSON WHO IS RETIRED IN GOOD STANDING FROM SERVICE WITH A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THE UNITED STATES, THE STATE, OR A LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THE STATE;

    (3) A MEMBER OR RETIRED MEMBER OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES OR, OR THE NATIONAL GUARD OR

    (4) A PERSON PURCHASING, RENTING, OR RECEIVING AN ANTIQUE, CURIO, OR RELIC FIREARM, AS DEFINED IN FEDERAL LAW OR IN DETERMINATIONS PUBLISHED BY THE BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES.
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,849
    Somewhere in MD
    Time to chime in. You "Titles of Nobility" / "Armchair Constitutionalists" need to get over it.

    Only 1 - 1-1/2 percent of the population serve actively in the Military. It's a tough road serving long enough to RETIRE with bennies. I personally worked 70 hours a week or more and when I put to sea it was much, much more. As in no time off other than sleep.

    So. No titles. Just BENNIES.

    Again, get over it.

    or

    Serve and see what it's like.

    or

    Go play Wannabe and polish your commercial AR-15.

    or

    Simply shut-up about it.
    How about screw that...

    I served as a uniformed member of the United States Marine Corps for five years, but not 20, not through my choice, but that of the President/Congress demanding the RIF in the mid-90s. Just because someone "retired" from the damn military services or a career in law enforcement should not provide them with any difference in the HQL requirements. Your benefits as a "retired" service-member are giveaways from the FEDERAL government. OUR service, whether discharged or retired, should have zero impact when it comes to discussions of how protected civil rights are applied except as allowed by denial of the right under due process for dishonorable separation circumstances.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    How about screw that...

    I served as a uniformed member of the United States Marine Corps for five years, but not 20, not through my choice, but that of the President/Congress demanding the RIF in the mid-90s. Just because someone "retired" from the damn military services or a career in law enforcement should not provide them with any difference in the HQL requirements. Your benefits as a "retired" service-member are giveaways from the FEDERAL government. OUR service, whether discharged or retired, should have zero impact when it comes to discussions of how protected civil rights are applied except as allowed by denial of the right under due process for dishonorable separation circumstances.

    ...How about this...

    The next time you're offered a well deserved raise or a corner office overlooking the trees, birds, and vast blue sky, you turn it/them down.

    Remember to tell your boss that you're no better the slugs who toil in tight, little cubicles for very little pay.

    Remember to do that. OK!!!

    That's what I thought.
     

    spclopr8tr

    Whatchalookinat?
    Apr 20, 2013
    1,793
    TN
    Not to throw anymore fuel on this inferno, but pasted below is the quick response I got from the MSP regarding the bad info posted on the MSP web site:

    "Your feedback and review of the information is appreciated. You are absolutely correct and the page will be amended.

    Please email me back any other comments.

    Respectfully,

    John G. Cook- Lieutenant
    Cell: 443-807-xxxx
    E-mail: john.cook@maryland.gov"

    So at least they are still reading emails and responding to queries.
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,849
    Somewhere in MD
    ...How about this.

    The next time you're offered a well deserved raise or a corner office overlooking the trees, birds, and vast blue sky, you turn it down.

    Remember to tell your boss that you're no better the slugs who toil in tight, little cubicles for very little pay.

    Remember to do that. OK!!!

    That's what I thought.
    WTF does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
     

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