How to register suppressor without paperwork.

firewall · May 31, 2012

Ok here is the long story short. A friend works for a company that has to manage wildlife. 10 years ago they contacted an individual to make a suppressor for them. They received a suppressor to test out and see how they liked it. They paid for the suppressor and shortly after the company they purchased it from went out of business. This is a custom suppressor not like a Gemtech or surefire. It's by like jim bobs gun shop.

Here is the problem. Jump forward about 10 years. My friend is working for this company and finds out that they do not have an ATF stamp for the suppressor. What would be the process to register it since the original person they bought it from can not be found (again 10 years later). Which makes it difficult to fill out the form 4, they didn't make it so that scratches out the form 3.

Any thoughts or ideas. I called ATF and they lady was NO help.

clandestine · May 31, 2012

Not smart to call BATFE about an UNREGISTERED (To the Owner) Sound Suppressor. I would not be suprised if you got a knock from the local BATFE Office. SOmething about the story dosent sound right because no SOT is going to loan anythin to someone without an agent of the Corp/LLC present unless a form 3 or 4 is completed.

The Prison and Fines associated with this topic are not something to be taken lightly. HE SHOULD have been the one to call BATFE.

Best bet it for him to CHOP IT length wise and cross ways, in many pieces.

teratos · May 31, 2012

clandestine said:
Best bet it for him to CHOP IT length wise and cross ways, in many pieces.

This.

wilcam47 · May 31, 2012

and throw it in a scrap/recycle bin....

firewall · May 31, 2012

Sounds fishy but it is not. The reason why he told me and I called is because I am a federal officer. I already looked into everything they have and it is accurate. They do have a bill of sale for the suppressor, but it doesn't have any information that specifies that specific one. (No suppressor serial number on the bill of sale). It was a face to face transfer in Georgia. The paperwork was supposed to be filled by the manufacturer to the trust. ATF doesn't have any paperwork (form 1) from the manufacturer saying he even built it. So naturally you can't have a form 4 transfer without a form 1 saying it was made.

It is always funny that people believe that by doing the right thing you will get a "knock on the door". Like it is a bad thing. And destroying a perfectly good suppressor is not an option.

This can not be the first time this situation has ever happened.

teratos · May 31, 2012

firewall said:
Sounds fishy but it is not. The reason why he told me and I called is because I am a federal officer. I already looked into everything they have and it is accurate. They do have a bill of sale for the suppressor, but it doesn't have any information that specifies that specific one. (No suppressor serial number on the bill of sale). It was a face to face transfer in Georgia. The paperwork was supposed to be filled by the manufacturer to the trust. ATF doesn't have any paperwork (form 1) from the manufacturer saying he even built it. So naturally you can't have a form 4 transfer without a form 1 saying it was made.

It is always funny that people believe that by doing the right thing you will get a "knock on the door". Like it is a bad thing. And destroying a perfectly good suppressor is not an option.

This can not be the first time this situation has ever happened.

Perhaps it works differently if you are a fed, but there is no recourse for civilians who are in possession of an unregistered NFA item. We have to keep a copy of a stamp with us at all times. We cannot have possession of the item without the stamp.

winchester1094 · May 31, 2012

Cut the losses before this costs a lot. Feed it into a belt sander until its dust

HT4 · May 31, 2012

firewall said:
And destroying a perfectly good suppressor is not an option.

Seriously? You want to keep a $1,000 (at very most) piece of pipe and risk 10 years in jail and a $250,000 fine? Explain why, exactly, destroying the can is not an option.

clandestine · May 31, 2012

firewall said:
Sounds fishy but it is not. The reason why he told me and I called is because I am a federal officer. I already looked into everything they have and it is accurate. They do have a bill of sale for the suppressor, but it doesn't have any information that specifies that specific one. (No suppressor serial number on the bill of sale). It was a face to face transfer in Georgia. The paperwork was supposed to be filled by the manufacturer to the trust. ATF doesn't have any paperwork (form 1) from the manufacturer saying he even built it. So naturally you can't have a form 4 transfer without a form 1 saying it was made.

It is always funny that people believe that by doing the right thing you will get a "knock on the door". Like it is a bad thing. And destroying a perfectly good suppressor is not an option.

This can not be the first time this situation has ever happened.

You asked, you got an answer. Being a Federal Officer does not save you from being questioned about your knowledge of this situation. You willing to lose a pension/retirement to cover for someone who dosent want to chop up an ILLEGAL $700.00 Suppressor?

I know many people that were RUINED by having items you describe. The Bill of Sale means nothing except helping BATFE prosecute (Its evidence). Ignorance will not save your friend if he is caught.

There is NO WAY to remedy this situation legally beneficial for your friend. Destroying the Suppressor is the only option unless paying 10K for a defense is worth keeping a $70.00 chunk of steel.

firewall · May 31, 2012

clandestine said:
You asked, you got an answer. Being a Federal Officer does not save you from being questioned about your knowledge of this situation. You willing to lose a pension/retirement to cover for someone who dosent want to chop up an ILLEGAL $700.00 Suppressor?

I know many people that were RUINED by having items you describe. The Bill of Sale means nothing except helping BATFE prosecute (Its evidence). Ignorance will not save your friend if he is caught.

There is NO WAY to remedy this situation legally beneficial for your friend. Destroying the Suppressor is the only option unless paying 10K for a defense is worth keeping a $70.00 chunk of steel.

So because you don't have an answer to the problem you assume that destroying the suppressor is the only option. Then you justify destroying the can by the cost value associated by penalty. When it could be as simple as one form that needs to be filled out that you just don't know about but someone else on here may.

That is why there is no need to destroy a perfectly good can at this point.

And yes I did ask and I got your answer that doesn't mean yours is the only answer.

I like how you assume that I will loose anything in this. I do not posses the can.

teratos · May 31, 2012

firewall said:
So because you don't have an answer to the problem you assume that destroying the suppressor is the only option. Then you justify destroying the can by the cost value associated by penalty. When it could be as simple as one form that needs to be filled out that you just don't know about but someone else on here may.

That is why there is no need to destroy a perfectly good can at this point.

It's usually not that simple. You cannot possess it without the stamp. You don't have the stamp, it is illegal. Period. There is no ex post facto form. Do you have a risk management department? Call them. Why would you ask a bunch of civilians what a federal officer should do with an unregistered suppressor, anyway? Let us know how it turns out.

clandestine · May 31, 2012

firewall said:
So because you don't have an answer to the problem you assume that destroying the suppressor is the only option. Then you justify destroying the can by the cost value associated by penalty. When it could be as simple as one form that needs to be filled out that you just don't know about but someone else on here may.

That is why there is no need to destroy a perfectly good can at this point.

And yes I did ask and I got your answer that doesn't mean yours is the only answer.

I like how you assume that I will loose anything in this. I do not posses the can.

You cant make a previously manufactured NFA device LEGAL unless you are a LEO Agency (For OFICIAL USE), or Museum. They have forms for that.

Roll the dice as you wish, I listed the only LEGAL options. The rest are not legal.

lasher9999 · May 31, 2012

firewall said:
So because you don't have an answer to the problem you assume that destroying the suppressor is the only option. Then you justify destroying the can by the cost value associated by penalty. When it could be as simple as one form that needs to be filled out that you just don't know about but someone else on here may.

That is why there is no need to destroy a perfectly good can at this point.

And yes I did ask and I got your answer that doesn't mean yours is the only answer.

I like how you assume that I will loose anything in this. I do not posses the can.

Sounds like you got an answer that you don't like. I don't think there is a magic bullet to make a ten year old crime go away. Perhaps there was no ill intent, but the law was not complied with. Out of curiosity, what kind of federal officer are you?

clandestine · May 31, 2012

teratos said:
It's usually not that simple. You cannot possess it without the stamp. You don't have the stamp, it is illegal. Period. There is no ex post facto form. Do you have a risk management department? Call them. Why would you ask a bunch of civilians what a federal officer should do with an unregistered suppressor, anyway? Let us know how it turns out.

I have a feeling we are being trolled. I have NEVER dealt with a LEO that talks about breaking Federal Law in this manner, especially on an open forum.

Im as big of a LEO supporter and any non LEO on this board but Im not too peachy on this situation.

Kingjamez · May 31, 2012

Firewall, I'm not sure you're understanding the gravity of the situation. If there is no paperwork for the suppressor, THERE IS NO ANSWER to give you. It is an illegal NFA item. It can not be legally registered, or legally owned, period. There is no legal recourse save for destroying it. So your friend will either illegally possess it, or destroy it, those are the only 2 choices.

-Jim

aray · May 31, 2012

firewall said:
This can not be the first time this situation has ever happened.

No doubt it is not the first time and no doubt they never end well.

As a Federal Officer you now have first-hand knowledge of an illegal situation. As Chad and others said, consider the consequences to yourself - and to your family.

HT4 · May 31, 2012

There is no legal way to get out of this and keep the can. Sorry. You asked, and that is the answer.

There is an illegal way to get it registered... and you would probably get away with it if you tried. I suspect almost anyone here who is familiar with NFA paperwork also knows the answer. That said, I will never advise someone on how to break the law, nor will any other person here if they have half a brain.

I think this thread should be closed because, at this point, you are asking for advice on how to break the law.

firewall · May 31, 2012

lasher9999 said:
Sounds like you got an answer that you don't like. I don't think there is a magic bullet to make a ten year old crime go away. Perhaps there was no ill intent, but the law was not complied with. Out of curiosity, what kind of federal officer are you?

It's not that I got and answer I don't like, the result will not affect me in the least. It's that I am waiting to see if their is another possible answer before calling up my friend and telling him to destroy something that his company paid for. Again it could be as simple as someone knows the form that needs to be filled out legally, and that person hasn't read this thread yet.

mopar92 · May 31, 2012

Burn it with fire. Or nuke it from orbit. (It's the only way to be sure)

Kingjamez · May 31, 2012

firewall said:
It's not that I got and answer I don't like, the result will not affect me in the least. It's that I am waiting to see if their is another possible answer before calling up my friend and telling him to destroy something that his company paid for. Again it could be as simple as someone knows the form that needs to be filled out legally, and that person hasn't read this thread yet.

That person will never answer in this thread, he doesn't exist. There is no legal recourse.

-Jim

How to register suppressor without paperwork.

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