SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

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    fightinbluhen51

    "Quack Pot Call Honker"
    Oct 31, 2008
    8,974
    I really, really like the way this judge does business
    So, what's your take on this? Should I get my application together, alert my references and schedule my finger prints? With those main questions, what chance of a stay at this process?

    IF, a stay request is denied by Legg, how long would it take for the MD AG to file his appeal, and subsequent emergency stay to the 4th? And then how long would they take (best guess) to rule on the stay?
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    I agree... Looks like Legg is more interested in getting it solved rather than hear options.
    Points2 3 and 4 go directly to the stay. State better get their act together, quickly This will probably on the record and a transcript made. Judge Legg is moving very quickly here
     

    Jason21237

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 24, 2011
    2,825
    Delta,PA
    I really like this judge.Hes a pretty smart guy. Hes extremely direct and to the point. Seems to be a no BS kinda guy. We got extremely lucky.
     

    Afield

    Active Member
    Jul 3, 2010
    183
    Rockville, MD
    Points2 3 and 4 go directly to the stay. State better get their act together, quickly This will probably on the record and a transcript made. Judge Legg is moving very quickly here

    Exactly as he should, now that the opinion is out things should be moving along. MD is going to have a hard time making the case that there will exist a threat to public safety, with 43 other states in line and the data to back it up.

    The data is somewhat irrelevant to the Constitutional question, or it should be. And data can always swing about and be a double edged sword. In this case, the violent crime rate in MD is worse than shall-issue states, and if anything is likely to improve with criminals having to think twice.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,366
    SoMD / West PA
    Exactly as he should, now that the opinion is out things should be moving along. MD is going to have a hard time making the case that there will exist a threat to public safety, with 43 other states in line and the data to back it up.

    The data is somewhat irrelevant to the Constitutional question, or it should be. And data can always swing about and be a double edged sword. In this case, the violent crime rate in MD is worse than shall-issue states, and if anything is likely to improve with criminals having to think twice.

    In my twisted evil mind.

    It's a way to expend state resources, so it will have to answer the other questions honestly.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    So, what's your take on this? Should I get my application together, alert my references and schedule my finger prints? With those main questions, what chance of a stay at this process?

    IF, a stay request is denied by Legg, how long would it take for the MD AG to file his appeal, and subsequent emergency stay to the 4th? And then how long would they take (best guess) to rule on the stay?

    Cannot give advice on what anyone should or should not do. I will say that I mailed my application today at 11:55 am. I'll go out on a limb here and say that the state will have to give mr Woollard his permit to have a realistic hope of avoiding an actual injunction requiring that Judge Legg is putting the state in a box with that one Very smart judge. The state can file a notice of appeal a minute after the court rules on the 59e motion and enters final judgment on the docket. One sheet of paper. An emergency motion can be made immediately thereafter with the 4th if judge Legg denies a stay. Im not willing now to say denial is assured. Looks like we will know soon though

    Edit. This damn iPad is hard to type on...
     
    Last edited:

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,735
    3. Assume the excision of the “good and substantial reason” requirement. How would Maryland's permitting system compare with the system in force in other states?
    4. In terms of handgun violence, how does Maryland compare with states with less restrictive permitting systems?

    I find these questions to be most interesting; and to me hints that he is considering denying the stay request.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    krucam and esqappellate,

    Thanks for the updates and insight, I hope neither one of you mind, but I have been pilfering your input and copying it over as needed to a thread on MDpreparedness.com for those members over there, that are not members here.

    BTW, esqappellate, if we ever meet in person, I will ask if you are wearing a tie...:lol2:
     

    csanc123

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 26, 2009
    4,155
    Montgomery County
    Is there any way possible this new development is the result of discussions between the three parties (judge/plaintiff/defense)?

    I only ask since MSP has told several permit applicants that a decision to move forward would be forthcoming on Friday (Latest was today when I got a call from MSP stating my interview would be postponed pending the state's decision on Friday...I wanted to ask what he was talking about but didn't.....)
     

    OnTarget

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 29, 2009
    3,154
    WV
    Is there any way possible this new development is the result of discussions between the three parties (judge/plaintiff/defense)?

    I only ask since MSP has told several permit applicants that a decision to move forward would be forthcoming on Friday (Latest was today when I got a call from MSP stating my interview would be postponed pending the state's decision on Friday...I wanted to ask what he was talking about but didn't.....)

    Glad you brought it up. I have been thinking the same thing.
     

    Kashmir1008

    MSI Executive Member
    Mar 21, 2009
    1,996
    Carroll County
    Exactly as he should, now that the opinion is out things should be moving along. MD is going to have a hard time making the case that there will exist a threat to public safety, with 43 other states in line and the data to back it up.

    The data is somewhat irrelevant to the Constitutional question, or it should be. And data can always swing about and be a double edged sword. In this case, the violent crime rate in MD is worse than shall-issue states, and if anything is likely to improve with criminals having to think twice.

    For what it's worth that Guardian has done a pretty good job of distilling the latest FBI crime statistic down into a graphic with embedded data tables.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2011/sep/27/gun-crime-map-statistics

    Maryland rank 4th in the country in firearm homicides with 5.1 murders per capita

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state#data

    I honestly do not know how this applies to the constitutional argument. You could say "MD has a higher rate so we should have stricter laws" or you could say the states on all sides of us have lower rates so MD can not argue that shall issue will create any public safety issue. Regardless ALL statistics point to dramatic drops in over all violent crime over the last 20 years while during the same time CCW and gun ownership has gone up.
     

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    Is there any way possible this new development is the result of discussions between the three parties (judge/plaintiff/defense)?

    I only ask since MSP has told several permit applicants that a decision to move forward would be forthcoming on Friday (Latest was today when I got a call from MSP stating my interview would be postponed pending the state's decision on Friday...I wanted to ask what he was talking about but didn't.....)

    Glad you brought it up. I have been thinking the same thing.

    Even with a Thursday teleconference, there is absolutely no way to know when the Judge will rule on the Stay. For the MSP to suggest they knew days ago of an imminent decision this Friday is folly and fiction and/or old fashioned BS...
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,735
    I honestly do not know how this applies to the constitutional argument. You could say "MD has a higher rate so we should have stricter laws" or you could say the states on all sides of us have lower rates so MD can not argue that shall issue will create any public safety issue. Regardless ALL statistics point to dramatic drops in over all violent crime over the last 20 years while during the same time CCW and gun ownership has gone up.

    I'm getting the feeling its more to be like "Dear Gansler, Stop whining about how this will hurt you"
     
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