Springfield XD vs S&W M&P

smokey · Mar 18, 2012

pop-gunner said:
Nope...
Only one of us if wrong and it's not me.
Smokey, you remember I'm a M&P armorer don't you?
Smith and the ATF say the M&P is double action.
GLOCK and the ATF say GLOCK is double action.
I dunno what Springfield says but the ATF says the XD is single action.
All 3 of these are striker fired guns but 2 of them have enough rearward movement of the striker that they were classified as double action .
When the HS2000 was originally imported the ATF gave it zero points for being double action making it single action.

Haha gotcha. Of course the atf also says a shoe string is a machine gun...soooo..... :innocent0

Being "double action", the m&p and the glock have second strike right? If you pull the trigger and the first hit sets in an unproperly seated primer, you can just pull the trigger again for it to fire right?

pop-gunner · Mar 18, 2012

smokey0118 said:
Haha gotcha. Of course the atf also says a shoe string is a machine gun...soooo.....

I don't make the rules...I just try to play by them.

RobMoore · Mar 18, 2012

Double action isn't defined by second strike capability. Pressing the trigger again after a failure to fire is foolish.

smokey · Mar 18, 2012

RobMoore said:
Double action isn't defined by second strike capability. Pressing the trigger again after a failure to fire is foolish.

agreed, getting that round out of the chamber is best...just trying to illustrate the mechanical difference when compared to true DA guns, who's trigger both cocks and releases a hammer. just saying trying to argue semantics and label something "DA" or "SA" isn't as productive as describing what it actually is and how it works.

There are some striker fired guns closer to a true DA, like the p99AS when it's decocked. In that gun, the sear draws the striker all the way back as you press the trigger and then drops out of the way. In "SA" mode, the trigger just drops a sear hook out of the way and allows the striker to fall forward. ...but which trigger pull is more similar to the m&p in actual practice? it would be the p99's "SA" mode.

When pressing the m&p and the xd's trigger, there is some takeup as the safeties disengage and then some added weight as the striker block is moved out of the way of the striker channel. At the very end of the pull is some more weight and a crisp break. Also compared to DAO triggers, the reset is very short. On DAO triggers, you often have to fully release the trigger for it to reset. Compare that to the pull of the p99as in "DA" or the 226 in DA, or a DA revolver. On any of those trigger pulls, you have instant heavy weight way up front that stacks up as you draw it to the rear the entire way until it breaks at the end of the movement. The shooter experiences something completely different.

elitehome · Mar 18, 2012

if you want to shoot a lego block go with xd if you want to be comfortable shoot mp

smokey · Mar 18, 2012

elitehome said:
if you want to shoot a lego block go with xd if you want to be comfortable shoot mp

BradMacc82 · Mar 18, 2012

To be fair, I also mistakenly called them DAO, had to recheck literature to verify.

I'll just call them striker-fired from now on, anytime the ATF gets ivolved in something it becomes a headache inevitably.

Although I'll stand by my opinion/preference favoring the M&P, for me, it was just the better fit and I'm happy with it.

sailskidrive · Mar 18, 2012

If I had to, I'd choose my Walther PPQ over my Glock, M&P, or XD in a heartbeat.

The fun part is collecting all of them along the way...

kevinlj · Mar 18, 2012

I have shot them both.. You have picked the right one...XDm. Just my 2 cents.

jayc0968 · Mar 18, 2012

I have yet to fire an M&P, though I'm interested. I have a SA XD40 Service I bought three years ago that I'm very pleased with. I shoot IDPA matches at AAFG with it twice a month and it runs like a champ with my cast handloads. Its completely stock, and wherever the front sight is when the trigger breaks is where that round impacts. It's a keeper.

bs911 · Mar 19, 2012

Since the M&P trigger came up in the discussion I'll add this.

I got the M&P because the fit and feel just was better for my hand. Not a single issue, failure, anything. That being said, I was NOT a fan of the trigger when I got it. Very gritty on the take up, a harsh mid pull striker block, and a very hard sear to over come, causing the barrel to jump on the break ... at least for my hand. So I ended up putting in the Apex kit. Should you have to go through this with a new gun? Probably not, but most people might not be as annoyed by the factory setup as I apparently was and I just can never leave well enough alone. In short, the factory trigger pull is a light spring, very hard sear break, and gritty. The Apex kit makes it a stronger spring, light sear break, and very smooth. But anyway, I collected some real data in case you are interested... (And I may have posted this before somewhere too, this is from my saved files.)

1. Out of the box... no reading. (sorry ... forgot to do that before I had done anything)

2. Partial Burwell trigger job. Polished the trigger bar assembly contact points. Made the trigger feel more smooth but not really what I would call lighter. Pull weight = 7 lbs 8oz.

3. Installed Apex USB. Made no difference in actual pull weight but eliminated the mid trigger pull "click" to get the factory striker block engaged. This made a HUGE difference in the overall feel of the trigger to me. Pull weight still 7 lbs 8oz.

4. Installed Apex hard sear. Breaks VERY lightly now and eliminated the barrel "jump" to the right on the sear break, EXACTLY like the video on Apex's website claims. Pull weight = 4lbs 8oz.

5. Installed Apex sear spring included in the Duty/Carry spring kit. Pull weight = 4lbs 12oz.

6. I did feel that with the hard sear installed but the factory spring it was VERY light... too light for my purposes. Installed Apex trigger spring included in the Duty/Carry spring kit. Pull weight = 5lbs 14oz.

End result, a totally different trigger feel. Smooth all the way back. No grit, no other "things" getting in the way, and a nice clean, crisp break. So there ya go. Hope this helps.

john_bud · Mar 19, 2012

^ what did all those parts cost ya?

bs911 · Mar 19, 2012

This is the kit I got... I know some of the major online stores carry it too. Looks like $90 now.

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid35.html

If you can drive out a couple drift pins and not lose tiny little springs then it is a fairly easy DIY job. I believe this kit would make the trigger comparable/even better than the M&P Pro trigger.

smokey · Mar 19, 2012

bs911 said:
Since the M&P trigger came up in the discussion I'll add this.

I got the M&P because the fit and feel just was better for my hand. Not a single issue, failure, anything. That being said, I was NOT a fan of the trigger when I got it. Very gritty on the take up, a harsh mid pull striker block, and a very hard sear to over come, causing the barrel to jump on the break ... at least for my hand. So I ended up putting in the Apex kit. Should you have to go through this with a new gun? Probably not, but most people might not be as annoyed by the factory setup as I apparently was and I just can never leave well enough alone. In short, the factory trigger pull is a light spring, very hard sear break, and gritty. The Apex kit makes it a stronger spring, light sear break, and very smooth. But anyway, I collected some real data in case you are interested... (And I may have posted this before somewhere too, this is from my saved files.)

1. Out of the box... no reading. (sorry ... forgot to do that before I had done anything)

2. Partial Burwell trigger job. Polished the trigger bar assembly contact points. Made the trigger feel more smooth but not really what I would call lighter. Pull weight = 7 lbs 8oz.

3. Installed Apex USB. Made no difference in actual pull weight but eliminated the mid trigger pull "click" to get the factory striker block engaged. This made a HUGE difference in the overall feel of the trigger to me. Pull weight still 7 lbs 8oz.

4. Installed Apex hard sear. Breaks VERY lightly now and eliminated the barrel "jump" to the right on the sear break, EXACTLY like the video on Apex's website claims. Pull weight = 4lbs 8oz.

5. Installed Apex sear spring included in the Duty/Carry spring kit. Pull weight = 4lbs 12oz.

6. I did feel that with the hard sear installed but the factory spring it was VERY light... too light for my purposes. Installed Apex trigger spring included in the Duty/Carry spring kit. Pull weight = 5lbs 14oz.

End result, a totally different trigger feel. Smooth all the way back. No grit, no other "things" getting in the way, and a nice clean, crisp break. So there ya go. Hope this helps.

Get the reset device. That was one of the best investments ive made in a firearm ever. I could deal with the factory trigger if the ram was in the gun.

Threeband · Mar 19, 2012

smokey0118 said:
Get the reset device. That was one of the best investments ive made in a firearm ever. I could deal with the factory trigger if the rad was in the gun.

I don't see a "reset device" listed on their site.

I'm sure you don't mean the Forward Set Sear, do you?

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid35.html

jaredm1 · Mar 19, 2012

Threeband said:
I don't see a "reset device" listed on their site.

I'm sure you don't mean the Forward Set Sear, do you?

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid35.html

It's the RAM
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid44.html

HT4 · Mar 19, 2012

pop-gunner said:
All 3 of these are striker fired guns but 2 of them have enough rearward movement of the striker that they were classified as double action .

I didn't think there was ANY rearward movement of the striker during trigger pull on the M&P... the sear simply rotates downward. Have I misunderstood the operation of the M&P's action?

Threeband · Mar 19, 2012

jaredm1 said:
It's the RAM
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid44.html

That looks like it would work in my M&P Compact, but my Full Size has the stupid internal lock. Apparently the RAM won't function with the internal lock:

This product works in ... models only that DO NOT INCLUDE a thumb safety, Magazine Disconnect or the Internal Locking System.

Could I make the RAM work by removing the internal lock, perhaps?

Maybe I'll just put the RAM in the Compact and go for the DCAEK in the Full Size.

I'd really like to improve the reset in both.

jaredm1 · Mar 19, 2012

Threeband said:
That looks like it would work in my M&P Compact, but my Full Size has the stupid internal lock. Apparently the RAM won't function with the internal lock:

Could I make the RAM work by removing the internal lock, perhaps?

Maybe I'll just put the RAM in the Compact and go for the DCAEK in the Full Size.

I'd really like to improve the reset in both.

I'm not sure on that...they do have one that works specifically with the magazine disconnect versions, but I don't know about the internal lock.
https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid45.html

In any case, I don't think it's a deal breaker. I like mine and it's nice to have, but not necessary...didn't make as big of a difference as the hard sear and USB.

HardHatMan · Mar 19, 2012

If I had to choose between the XD or the M&P, I would choose the M&P. The XD felt weird in my hands and I could not shoot it as well as the M&P. I hated the grip safety on the XD, as well. Overall, I would choose a GLOCK over any of them.

Springfield XD vs S&W M&P

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

2A TEACHER

Ultimate Member

The Mad Scientist

2A TEACHER

Active Member

2A TEACHER

Ultimate Member

Legalize the Constitution

Member

Cpl, U.S.M.C. 87-92

Member

Ultimate Member

Member

2A TEACHER

The M1 Does My Talking

Ultimate Member

Dum spiro spero.

The M1 Does My Talking

Ultimate Member

FBHO

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics