PGT&S Fuddism

protegeV said:

Im surprised they didn't specify that the stock had to be wood as well. No evil black stocks allowed

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What? Are you ready the anti play book in your spare time? How about a bright pink stock that has "Barry for a third term" stenciled on the side of it? Not very sporting, but I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem.

There are lots of synthetic type stock sporting shotguns, just not with a pistol grip. It's not as popular as wood, but just about every major manufacturer has a synthetic clay gun of some sort.

They did that to my cousin and I about 2 years ago. Fudds they are and I cant stand them. I jave dealt with my share of them as a Smith.

Perhaps we need to arrange MDS day and all show up with post gripped stocks.

clandestine said:

They did that to my cousin and I about 2 years ago. Fudds they are and I cant stand them. I jave dealt with my share of them as a Smith.

Perhaps we need to arrange MDS day and all show up with post gripped stocks.

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That would be funny. I think I'd rather just try to support another range and out their policy to the shooting community.

as an aside...
I'm also not advocating the pistol grip stock as the best thing ever for clays. I'm not too hung up on it and would be fine shooting with just about anything. I've shot a variety of browning, beretta, franchi, and ruger O/U's. I've shot with a variety of beretta, browning, remington, and benelli semi-autos. Same trend with pumps. I've even shot that goofy beretta break-action semi auto they have, the UGB25X. I've enjoyed shooting with them all and appreciate them all(I really liked the UGB25X...very little recoil and it's just batsh!t crazy enough for me to love. I shot great with that sumbitch)

Unfortunately, I don't have loot to get those kinds of guns. I do have loot to pickup an 870 for $200 to shoot with. I also don't have loot to buy jenni her own gun to shoot with. I DO have enough to toss a collapseable stock on my 870 so that it can fit both her and me. For extra measure, I can also toss the 18" barrel on so I can use it for HD. It's absolutely a straight-up compromise gun that's pretty good at a variety of things, but not really great at any one thing....I can accept that. I also know that I can shoot very well with how it is set up and that there's no safety reason why it should be banned.

I also know that the last time I was there, I taught 3 women to shoot. They had a browning BPS, a standard 870 espress(factory polymer stock), a weatherby pump, and my 870 with the archangel stock on it. Unanimously, they preferred to shoot with the pistol-grip stock and did better with it. They gave a variety of reasons... it's short length of pull, light weight, and the fact that it helped them pull it into their shoulder(for less perceived recoil) were on the top of the list. I'm sure as they grow with shooting, they'd each find a gun setup that works for them, but it seems there's at least some validity to using my gun for something as simple at sporting clays. At least at our level, it's not really a handicap in any way.

I get that they don't want people showing up with a taurus judge to shoot skeet with. I don't agree with, but would be willing to accept the barrel length restriction. Aside from them just thinking tacticool guns are icky, and them being a little elitist, I can't think of a valid reason why pistol-gripped stocks should be banned. If they want to exclude them from an official competition...sure..fine..whatever. But saying I can't walk through the woods with my out-of-town buddy and pop some clays from an automated system because my gun has a pistol grip stock instead of something more "traditional"? And then getting rude when i question them? That's unacceptable to me.

The clays industry has devolved into a bunch of tweed jacketed, cigar smoking, five figure gun toting elitists. At $30 - $50 per 100 clays, $ 30 -$40 for shells, plus tip the average joe isn't out there often, if at all. Morgan & Rhys @PG are stuck right there with that crowd. I gave up on registered clays years ago when the NSCA went to the current Peter Principle class system that assumes everyone is going to be Master Class.
Nothing ruins a day of clays faster than to be squadded with a couple of the above mentioned elitists. Second hand smoke is the last thing I want. However, nothing beats coming off the field having smoked them with my 30 something year old, $1200, Browning O/U!!

Man I miss the days of quail walks, skipper ponds, poison bird pheasant flushes when your hunting gun was the most effective piece to shoot with.

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Mack C-85 said:

The clays industry has devolved into a bunch of tweed jacketed, cigar smoking, five figure gun toting elitists. At $30 - $50 per 100 clays, $ 30 -$40 for shells, plus tip the average joe isn't out there often, if at all. Morgan & Rhys @PG are stuck right there with that crowd. I gave up on registered clays years ago when the NSCA went to the current Peter Principle class system that assumes everyone is going to be Master Class.
Nothing ruins a day of clays faster than to be squadded with a couple of the above mentioned elitists. Second hand smoke is the last thing I want. However, nothing beats coming off the field having smoked them with my 30 something year old, $1200, Browning O/U!!

Man I miss the days of quail walks, skipper ponds, poison bird pheasant flushes when your hunting gun was the most effective piece to shoot with.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

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This.

These guys aren't Fudds, they are elitists. Hardly any of them hunt because they wouldn't want to scratch their $100,000 Krieghoff or what have you.

I used to shoot there a lot, and was about to get back into shooting over there since it is the closest sporting clays range to me, my brothers, and my dad. Damn, now I am going to have to go and look for another sporting clays course. I just cannot fathom giving those snobs my money.

FYI - back in 1993 my brothers, a friend of ours, and I were treated like complete crap by some of the old timers. I had just started shooting there at that time. I treated the idiots the same way they treated us. As time passed, I became more accepted by the regular "group" of trap shooters.

I guess when you look like this on the range, they aren't too happy to see you.

I guess Mark is no longer the manager there and has been replaced by Morgan. Going back and seeing Mark was part of my motivation to go back there and shoot. Looks like it is going to have to be Pintail Point and other ranges from now on. Just need to figure out the other sporting clays ranges in the area.

By the way, I really do hate the term FUDD. Might be the equivalent of calling all you "self defense" guys RAMBO, but you would probably like that now wouldn't you?

OT, but come on over to Pintail Point. I will shoot with you. Let me dig out my smoking jacket and my pistol gripped Benelli.

Even if there were such a thing as a FUDD , these weren't FUDDs , they are Sporting Clays Eliteists. If they enountered an actual mythical FUDD, they would give him the hairy eyeball , and the cold shoulder.

And don't lump every sport that involves shooting targets mfg from clay together . American Trap is more Joe Sixpack. Skeet is middle class, mixed with hardcore wing shooters.

Sporting Clays was developed in ENGLAND by rich tweed wearing snobs for the off season when they weren't shooting Driven Pheasant on their Estates. Even though it has grown to be an abstract sprort beyond its hunting roots , it retains its culture and atmosphere of gentility. Genuine British Instructors/ Coaches/ Managers are considered superstars , like American Basketball players in Europe.

All that said , regular stocks really Are way more effective for targets that move qucikly/ fly . (Turkey hunting guns are used essentially like rifles , that just happen to have extra full chokes.).

For the background ;

The land was/ is owned by PG Parks. In the mid '70s , Winchester built everything ( except the SC , at the time nobody in US had heard of it, much less shot it) . In exchange , they had 20yr lease to operate it , at the end of which all the factilties became property of PG Co. After the end of Winchester's lease , PG opted to enter a new agreement for Berretta to operate. At the end of that agreement , they decided to operate themselves directly.

For further background in the '60s and '70s ( &'50s ? ) Winchester used to activly build and operate Trap and Skeet fields for a variety of motives. Encourage shooting sports generally , increase access to T&S to the public , beyond the typical private club , increase sales of trap/ skeet specific versions of Winchester shotguns , and turn a direct operating profit. Ideally a win/ win/ win/ win .

Traveler said:

I have it on good authority from many threads here that there are no FUDDs in the Maryland hunter community. Wait .. I will search for the threads.

BULLLLSHIIIIITTTT.

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Please enlighten me as to what the policy of these asswipes has to do with hunters?

I would guess the average employee there probably isn't extremely enthusiastic about the sporting disciplins there since its a county job, versus a Private club where club members volunteer to run things.

If no one showed up to shoot there anymore it would just be turned into something else. Those counties down there pump a lot of money into their Parks and Rec department.

Smokey,

It is time to set them up. Find someone with a "reduced capacity" hand, one that finds a pistol grip is needed for proper control of the shotgun (I believe Hvymax made such a claim). Take them down for a little trap with your shotty. When they refuse access it is time to have one of the lawyers on the forum write up a nice letter to PGCO about how they discriminate against the handicap. See how quickly their tune changes. Maybe a lawsuit will fund someone's shooting activities for the next several years.

those guys are assholes, not fudds. yall keep them up there. and shooting clay pigeons aint hunting last time i checked. the people i hunt with would not piss on the grass at a place like that much less spend the kind of money i see talked about here to shoot clay pigeons that you can get cheap at walmart and shoot any old place. but if some folks want to alienate hunters because some asswipe elitist told you that they didnt like your gun, then go ahead but it would seem more reasonable to me to be pissed at the elitists instead of hunters. we have an election coming up and we need all the votes we can get so if some want to run hunters away from the cause so be it, i wont be doing that.

What a wretched, miserable creature is the fellow whose self esteem is maintained not through personal betterment but by degrading and sullying his fellow man.

fabsroman said:

This.

These guys aren't Fudds, they are elitists. Hardly any of them hunt because they wouldn't want to scratch their $100,000 Krieghoff or what have you.

I used to shoot there a lot, and was about to get back into shooting over there since it is the closest sporting clays range to me, my brothers, and my dad. Damn, now I am going to have to go and look for another sporting clays course. I just cannot fathom giving those snobs my money.

FYI - back in 1993 my brothers, a friend of ours, and I were treated like complete crap by some of the old timers. I had just started shooting there at that time. I treated the idiots the same way they treated us. As time passed, I became more accepted by the regular "group" of trap shooters.

I guess when you look like this on the range, they aren't too happy to see you.

I guess Mark is no longer the manager there and has been replaced by Morgan. Going back and seeing Mark was part of my motivation to go back there and shoot. Looks like it is going to have to be Pintail Point and other ranges from now on. Just need to figure out the other sporting clays ranges in the area.

By the way, I really do hate the term FUDD. Might be the equivalent of calling all you "self defense" guys RAMBO, but you would probably like that now wouldn't you?

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rambo!? I'm highly offended, the correct term is mall ninja.

Seriously guys, I have zero problems with clay shooters and hunters. Keep in mind, I was going there to shoot clays with my buddy, as I have for years. I fully get the competition side and culture of all the various clay games and have tried my hand at most of them. Hell, my first time ever shooting sporting clays was a dedicated rabbit day up at hopewell(sink or swim right?). I've also said earlier in here that I really like the fancier and more expensive clay guns and would probably have one if money allowed. I also recognized that a traditional stock is better for most people. I'm not advocating a pistol grip stock for everyone, just saying that it meets my particular needs(changing length to swap between my wife and I) and that I personally like it better, after comparing it to stocks on other guns.

I only chose "PGT&S fuddism", because I felt it quickly summed up what was going on....that range was banning a type of stock for purely cosmetic reasons. I could have also easily titled this thread, "PGT&S were dickish today", "WTF PGT&S", or as another poster put it "PGT&S can FOAD". Working in gunworld, I've generally not seen too many actual fudd-type people. I agree they largely are overhyped and it's a divisive thing. It was just a casual title I felt summed up things roughly. If I saw a horse with a plunger on it's face, I may start a thread, "saw a unicorn today". It doesn't mean unicorns are on every street corner, but that I had an encounter with one horse that resembled the fabled unicorn. That is all.

Again, my problem is specifically with PGT&S's policy and the attitude I got on the phone when I questioned them about it.

All we need is one ADA (american's with disabilities act) lawsuit to shut them up...... (oop's boxcab beat me to it)

To make another cross cultural comparison , it would be like going to a country cuib to play golf , and being turned away because you wore cutoffs , flip flops , and your clubs were painted neon pink.

Drmsparks said:

All we need is one ADA (american's with disabilities act) lawsuit to shut them up...... (oop's boxcab beat me to it)

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It needs to be considered. I bet the county would quickly reconsider if ADA is even mentioned.

BradMacc82 said:

They can FOAD as far as I'm concerned.

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I'm presuming this is the cousin of ESAD.

Is that the facility Greasman used to shoot at?

One of the nicest ranges around with great hours and we want to sue them so we can use a pistol grip stock? I don't get all the anger and the "I'll never go there again attitude." I don't go there to hang out and make friends. I go there to shoot clay pigeons. It's easy: every once in a while you buy a book of tickets. When you get there, go inside and ask them which ranges are open. Then you go shoot and give the kid your ticket when he comes by. Easy peasy - the birds fly out and you shoot them. When you're done shooting you go home and repeat as often as desired. Smokey I know you're ticked because their dumb rules ruined a day out with a friend. My son has been rejected for shooting his 870 youth model when he's gone there by himself (he likes the challenge of shooting his little 20 guage). If he's with me though, they don't say anything. It is what it is. It's a really nice range with good hours. Eat the fish and spit out the bones.