(Another) My first AR Build: A few questions

TheOctane · Apr 27, 2015

Good Morning MDSers,
I don't post much as I mostly just read and research around here but I can't find what I need so I figured I would ask.

I am working on my first long gun build. Its an AR 15 and its mainly going to be an accurate plinker (300y or so).

Ive got everything to make a completed lower:
Aero Precision Forged Lower
CMMG LPK
Spikes Tactical Heavy Buffer assembly
Magpul STR stock

There are two parts I am struggling with...which Upper and which Barrel

For an Upper I am looking at the Aero Precision M4E1...but I can'd find a list of compatible handguards and AP doesn't make an angled one. I am torn on this but its not a big deal.

For a barrel I would love a 16"-18" HBAR Cold Hammer Forged .223 Wylde in 1/7 or 1/8 twist but I am not sure they exist...

HBAR or Heavy is almost never found as a sortable filter on websites...and its very difficult to determine if one would meet the state requirements of having its stamped or specifically listed in the description.

I have "found" some but they are from companies I haven't heard of...the J&T doesn't even list the caliber anywhere:
http://jtdistributing.net/store/product54.html

http://www.redbarnarmory.com/product-p/jt16hbarchf1-7cc.htm

I would buy one if I could find a trustworthy source/product even if it was in 556 Nato instead of 223 wylde.

Anyone had any luck with a similar build?

outrider58 · Apr 27, 2015

Not sure what your preference is on hand guards but they all fit. I recommend/insist a free floating one though.

On barrels, look at White Oak, DEZ, JP, Rock River, or Ranier for starters. Hope that helps.

TheOctane · Apr 27, 2015

outrider58 said:
Not sure what your preference is on hand guards but they all fit. I recommend/insist a free floating one though.

On barrels, look at White Oak, DEZ, JP, Rock River, or Ranier for starters. Hope that helps.

Thanks Outrider58. I absolutely am going freefloat. The description of the upper on AP's site lead me to think it may not be as compatible but based on reviews and videos I had no real reason to think it wouldn't work with most/any handguards.

Ive resorted to researching the manufacturer's websites to try and get more detail on the CHF and HBAR barrels they offer to see if any fit. Ill check out those you mentioned.

Brad · Apr 27, 2015

outrider58 said:
Not sure what your preference is on hand guards but they all fit. I recommend/insist a free floating one though.

On barrels, look at White Oak, DEZ, JP, Rock River, or Ranier for starters. Hope that helps.

I'm pretty sure most handgaurds are NOT compatible with the M4E1.

Overboost44 · Apr 27, 2015

Check with Engage Armament on the .223 Wylde WOA barrel. They had the WOA marked HBar with that twist. I believe mine is 1:8 but I went shorter than you are.

SWO Daddy · Apr 27, 2015

1. That Aero upper looks proprietary. You're likely stuck with whatever rail offerings they offer if you go that route. Not sure what you mean by "angled" handguard.

2. Why are you so stuck on a CHF barrel? A nice button-rifled barrel is going to give you better accuracy. You're not going to see the benefits of a CHF barrel unless you enjoy repeated mag dumps.

Gambler · Apr 27, 2015

Another +1 on the WOA barrels here. They aren't cheap, but they are excellent barrels, and they'll make it to your specifications.

Speed3 · Apr 27, 2015

Gambler said:
Another +1 on the WOA barrels here. They aren't cheap, but they are excellent barrels, and they'll make it to your specifications.

Cheaper than a Kreiger lol.

TheOctane · Apr 27, 2015

SWO Daddy said:
1. That Aero upper looks proprietary. You're likely stuck with whatever rail offerings they offer if you go that route. Not sure what you mean by "angled" handguard.

2. Why are you so stuck on a CHF barrel? A nice button-rifled barrel is going to give you better accuracy. You're not going to see the benefits of a CHF barrel unless you enjoy repeated mag dumps.

This is an Angled Handguard:

http://www.denvergunsandammo.com/imagedb/image153325-c1c3fbf7e8f761e8f997aa32a56ad7ba.jpg

I was partial to CHF because they are lighter and have the added durability. I can compromise on that though. The .223 wylde and 1/7 twist are more important to me.

outrider58 · Apr 27, 2015

Brad said:
I'm pretty sure most handgaurds are NOT compatible with the M4E1.

Now that i'm on my computer(and not my cellie), I see what you mean. Personally i'd skip that upper because of obvious limitations. But that's just me and I like to always be able to change and tweak my ARs as their uses sometimes change. OP, what about their standard uppers? That chunk on their M4E1 looks like excess weight. Just one man's opinion...

smdub · Apr 27, 2015

The AP M4E1 is a good quasi-monolithic upper. If you don't want to run one of the handguards that they make that fit it, you don't want to use that upper. Monolithics do have some advantages but using any handguard is not one of them. Primary advantages are perfectly aligned longer upper rail (may be important if you run magnifiers or night vision. Also no longer necessary to align barrel nut), sometimes slightly lighter as the mounting is aluminum instead of large steel nut, and no gap between handguard and upper (purely aesthetic.) Often require a proprietary barrel nut & wrench. If none of these float your boat, get a regular upper.

TheOctane · Apr 27, 2015

outrider58 said:
Now that i'm on my computer(and not my cellie), I see what you mean. Personally i'd skip that upper because of obvious limitations. But that's just me and I like to always be able to change and tweak my ARs as their uses sometimes change. OP, what about their standard uppers? That chunk on their M4E1 looks like excess weight. Just one man's opinion...

I like the M4E1 in its design. Its actually pretty much what SMDUB was saying about it that I like.

smdub said:
The AP M4E1 is a good quasi-monolithic upper. If you don't want to run one of the handguards that they make that fit it, you don't want to use that upper. Monolithics do have some advantages but using any handguard is not one of them. Primary advantages are perfectly aligned longer upper rail (may be important if you run magnifiers or night vision. Also no longer necessary to align barrel nut), sometimes slightly lighter as the mounting is aluminum instead of large steel nut, and no gap between handguard and upper (purely aesthetic.) Often require a proprietary barrel nut & wrench. If none of these float your boat, get a regular upper.

I believe AP sends you the tools with the M4E1....Ill think about it a little more....the angled handguard is purely aesthetic for me.

smdub · Apr 27, 2015

Says the nut and tool are included. I recently found a pair of AP COP M4 uppers where are even more monolithic. But they only come as carbine or midlength and not rifle length

Also currently out of stock in black and they don't know when they're doing another run. One Im running a 10.5" barrel on so the M4 length is fine. They aren't my only uppers so not concerned w/ not being able to use any handguard. I can confirm they hold an Eotech and G33 magnifier on QR mounts very well (front QR latch wont fit on the upper of a regular receiver.)

SigMatt · Apr 27, 2015

I did an upper build last week on .223 Wylde with a Rock River Arms 20" HBAR. They do offer shorter lengths in the same chambering but no customization on twist. Standard 1:9.

I opted for a Yankee Hill Diamond free-float rail. It aligns perfectly with the top of the upper receiver due to its use of a separate jam nut and screws for the rail to maintain alignment. Went in without a hitch (after the hour spent getting the front sight tree off). I have their special wrench which helps with the barrel nut and jam nut.

My understanding with the State is the barrel must be stamped HBAR or otherwise sold as a "Heavy" profile on their website. I printed out the page for my barrel and stuck it with my paperwork in case anyone ever asks. Since I built the upper for a pre-2013 lower, I can put any barrel I want on it but I prefer the heavy profile.

Magpul furniture, EOTech, low profile gas block, flip front/rear sights. I can post pics if you like if you're looking for inspiration. I wanted an A4 type rifle but with a flip front instead of a fixed tree and with greater base accuracy.

Keep in mind .223 Wylde is not 5.56mm/.223. So you need different headspace gauges if you plan to double-check your headspace. You'll virtually never have a problem but it provides peace of mind when you use different barrel and bolt assemblies that weren't built together.

Matt

SigMatt · Apr 28, 2015

TheOctane said:
I was partial to CHF because they are lighter and have the added durability. I can compromise on that though. The .223 wylde and 1/7 twist are more important to me.

Looking to shoot competitively? 1:7 implies you're looking to stabilize heavy rounds. 75gr and above. Just curious given the fast twist as 55gr will likely spin apart out of that barrel. I'm building an F-TR rifle on a .223 Wylde and 1:7 twist but it is purpose-built to fire 80gr and above rounds as a single-shot rifle.

Matt

501st · Apr 28, 2015

mpickering said:
Looking to shoot competitively? 1:7 implies you're looking to stabilize heavy rounds. 75gr and above. Just curious given the fast twist as 55gr will likely spin apart out of that barrel. I'm building an F-TR rifle on a .223 Wylde and 1:7 twist but it is purpose-built to fire 80gr and above rounds as a single-shot rifle.

Matt

That is not true. Nothing bad will happen to ~55 grain .223/5.56 rounds fired out of a 1-7 twist barrel.

501st · Apr 28, 2015

TheOctane said:
Good Morning MDSers,
I don't post much as I mostly just read and research around here but I can't find what I need so I figured I would ask.

I am working on my first long gun build. Its an AR 15 and its mainly going to be an accurate plinker (300y or so).

Ive got everything to make a completed lower:
Aero Precision Forged Lower
CMMG LPK
Spikes Tactical Heavy Buffer assembly
Magpul STR stock

There are two parts I am struggling with...which Upper and which Barrel

For an Upper I am looking at the Aero Precision M4E1...but I can'd find a list of compatible handguards and AP doesn't make an angled one. I am torn on this but its not a big deal.

For a barrel I would love a 16"-18" HBAR Cold Hammer Forged .223 Wylde in 1/7 or 1/8 twist but I am not sure they exist...

HBAR or Heavy is almost never found as a sortable filter on websites...and its very difficult to determine if one would meet the state requirements of having its stamped or specifically listed in the description.

I have "found" some but they are from companies I haven't heard of...the J&T doesn't even list the caliber anywhere:
http://jtdistributing.net/store/product54.html

http://www.redbarnarmory.com/product-p/jt16hbarchf1-7cc.htm

I would buy one if I could find a trustworthy source/product even if it was in 556 Nato instead of 223 wylde.

Anyone had any luck with a similar build?

Brownells has an 18 inch WOA .223 wylde 1-7 twist barrel (mid length gas system) on sale for $249.99.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...ch-barrels-prod54526.aspx?avs|Contour_1=Heavy

I would call engage armament and see how their HBAR WOA barrels compare in terms of specs and price to the WOA barrel on brownells and pick the better option.

TheOctane · Apr 28, 2015

mpickering said:
Looking to shoot competitively? 1:7 implies you're looking to stabilize heavy rounds. 75gr and above. Just curious given the fast twist as 55gr will likely spin apart out of that barrel. I'm building an F-TR rifle on a .223 Wylde and 1:7 twist but it is purpose-built to fire 80gr and above rounds as a single-shot rifle.

Matt

Not in tracked matches or anything more than light competition among friends... but my goal for the rifle is accuracy above all else.

501st said:
Brownells has an 18 inch WOA .223 wylde 1-7 twist barrel (mid length gas system) on sale for $249.99.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...ch-barrels-prod54526.aspx?avs|Contour_1=Heavy

I would call engage armament and see how their HBAR WOA barrels compare in terms of specs and price to the WOA barrel on brownells and pick the better option.

Thanks, EA is a place I am planning on visiting in the next week or so.

SigMatt · Apr 28, 2015

501st said:
That is not true. Nothing bad will happen to ~55 grain .223/5.56 rounds fired out of a 1-7 twist barrel.

Not all rounds but I know a guy who was developing loads for service rifle and his 55gr rounds weren't staying together to 100 yards and shotgun patterning the target. RPM was too high and the rounds came apart. Dropped to 1:8 and the lighter rounds flew fine.

Calculated based on his muzzle velocity his rounds were spun up to 304,000 rpm. Apparently his rounds didn't like that and figured the jackets were separating.

Matt

IgotAgun · Apr 29, 2015

I got my barrel from black hole armory. They have 5 different profiles to choose from and they off fluting for fairly cheap. Also. SS is the way to go for accuracy.

(Another) My first AR Build: A few questions

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