PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

Merlin · Apr 16, 2012

Also is there some kind of list that you can get from the MSP that exactly spells out what a G&S is? Or is whatever they want it to be that given day?

MJD438 · Apr 16, 2012

Merlin said:
Also is there some kind of list that you can get from the MSP that exactly spells out what a G&S is? Or is whatever they want it to be that given day?

Per their testimony on Gun Bill Day in the House of Delegates this year - they know it when they see it...

csanc123 · Apr 16, 2012

It's arbitrary hence the good fight being put forth. Even MSP couldn't define it when asked by the Delegates during a hearing.

Merlin said:
Also is there some kind of list that you can get from the MSP that exactly spells out what a G&S is? Or is whatever they want it to be that given day?

Merlin · Apr 16, 2012

csanc123 said:
This is what folks have been getting (from the first post):

http://www.box.com/s/92306766413790660714

So they tell the people that they do not have a G&S, but they do not offer any examples of what a G&S reason may be or look like.

MJD438 · Apr 16, 2012

Merlin said:
So they tell the people that they do not have a G&S, but they do not offer any examples of what a G&S reason may be or look like.

Yes

Mr H · Apr 16, 2012

Merlin said:
So they tell the people that they do not have a G&S, but they do not offer any examples of what a G&S reason may be or look like.

And, by some members' descriptions of their application, some reasons that WOULD be possible G&S were ignored, telling me that the decision is... oh, my... arbitrary and capricious!! Sounds familiar!!!

csanc123 · Apr 16, 2012

Merlin said:
So they tell the people that they do not have a G&S, but they do not offer any examples of what a G&S reason may be or look like.

And BINGO was his name ohhh. :-)

USAFRavenR6 · Apr 16, 2012

Getting back on track........ Sorry I have been away for a few days there, I have been ultra busy with work, school, and kids. I read the comment Rep Schmiegel posted on Facebook earlier and I am going to wait a few days for some type of direction from him. He has not led us down the wrong path yet and since he asked to be patient, that's what I will do for him. If no word is given, and I am approaching the 10 day deadline, I will return the app as is and request an appeals board as others have indicated in this thread. I just wanted to chime in and show my face. Has there been any news from Rep. Schmiegel or anyone else that has received a letter on how they indent to proceed?

Inigoes · Apr 16, 2012

csanc123 said:
It's arbitrary hence the good fight being put forth. Even MSP ~~couldn't~~ wouldn't define it when asked by the Delegates during a hearing.

FIFY

Although the MSP knows it when they say it! :sad20:

Merlin · Apr 16, 2012

Inigoes said:
FIFY

Although the MSP knows it when they say it!

Unfortunately I know the answer to this But I just want to read it from you guys just in case I'm wrong, but there is no list of requirement or description of guidelines that one must meet to be considered to have a G&S according to the MSP standards?

I know there is a list of things you need if your a business owner as far as licenses, tax returns, deposits slips, and invoices. But it does not really go into any detail. For example, if your a business owners and you show your tax returns that show you paid business related taxes, why they do you also have to show deposits slips or invoices or a license?

The only way I will pay the FED's business related taxes is if I have a business. And if you do show your tax returns, they show all income and overhead for that given year. So why the need to show everything seperetly?

Unless the MSP really mean to say you have to show either your business related taxes, OR you deposit slips, OR your invoices, OR you license. But if you look at how it reads you have to show it all.

mvee · Apr 16, 2012

Is there any way to hold the MDSP accountable for not following COMAR by not accepting these applications?

paulstitz · Apr 16, 2012

Merlin said:
Unfortunately I know the answer to this But I just want to read it from you guys just in case I'm wrong, but there is no list of requirement or description of guidelines that one must meet to be considered to have a G&S according to the MSP standards?

I know there is a list of things you need if your a business owner as far as licenses, tax returns, deposits slips, and invoices. But it does not really go into any detail. For example, if your a business owners and you show your tax returns that show you paid business related taxes, why they do you also have to show deposits slips or invoices or a license?

The only way I will pay the FED's business related taxes is if I have a business. And if you do show your tax returns, they show all income and overhead for that given year. So why the need to show everything seperetly?

Unless the MSP really mean to say you have to show either your business related taxes, OR you deposit slips, OR your invoices, OR you license. But if you look at how it reads you have to show it all.

For the Business owner they want to see deposit slips with LARGE amounts of cash, then the permit will be restricted to the times the business owner is traveling to or from the bank with a large amount of money.

Inigoes · Apr 16, 2012

mvee said:
Is there any way to hold the MDSP accountable for not following COMAR by not accepting these applications?

Take them to court.

Which was really dumb of the MSP because there an open case already.

Mr H · Apr 16, 2012

paulstitz said:
For the Business owner they want to see deposit slips with LARGE amounts of cash, then the permit will be restricted to the times the business owner is traveling to or from the bank with a large amount of money.

But you're not factoring in one important point, I think...

G&S no longer matters, per Judge Legg's ruling.

Anything that once applied to justification of G&S should no longer matter.

Yes, there is a stay of the ACTION of the ruling, but the ruling itself is there. If MSP is still trying to enforce it, "dey goss some 'splainin to do!!"

For us to be worrying about cash depoosits, and 'apprehended threats' before we remember we're looking at a fundamental, enumerated right, then we're proving the existence of BGOS, and admitting we've been cowed by what has been the standard, rather than looking forward to what is right.

Merlin · Apr 16, 2012

mvee said:
Is there any way to hold the MDSP accountable for not following COMAR by not accepting these applications?

One way is to use all of your appeal options instead of just going away. Remember the way they are sending the app's back makes them look like the nice guys because they are concerned about you and not wanting you to waist your money. So if/when they are ever called on it, they can claim they were just trying to look out for everyone.

paulstitz · Apr 16, 2012

mr h said:
But you're not factoring in one important point, I think...

G&S no longer matters, per Judge Legg's ruling.

Anything that once applied to justification of G&S should no longer matter.

Yes, there is a stay of the ACTION of the ruling, but the ruling itself is there. If MSP is still trying to enforce it, "dey goss some 'splainin to do!!"

For us to be worrying about cash depoosits, and 'apprehended threats' before we remember we're looking at a fundamental, enumerated right, then we're proving the existence of BGOS, and admitting we've been cowed by what has been the standard, rather than looking forward to what is right.

With the stay in place I believe G&S does matter. But not for long (I hope)

Merlin · Apr 16, 2012

mr h said:
But you're not factoring in one important point, I think...

G&S no longer matters, per Judge Legg's ruling.

Anything that once applied to justification of G&S should no longer matter.

Yes, there is a stay of the ACTION of the ruling, but the ruling itself is there. If MSP is still trying to enforce it, "dey goss some 'splainin to do!!"

For us to be worrying about cash depoosits, and 'apprehended threats' before we remember we're looking at a fundamental, enumerated right, then we're proving the existence of BGOS, and admitting we've been cowed by what has been the standard, rather than looking forward to what is right.

Is that true, or is it OK for them to use it during the stay? I would deduce by the judge implementing the stay is him saying I ruled like I did but you still do not have to follow it just yet until he is satisfied he has worked everything out.

Likewise if the 4th give MD a more permit stay that will last through the complete appeal process, there to I think the MSP can proceed as business as normal and keep using G&S to their hearts content. IF/when the one day loose the appeals process, they they will have to stop using it.

And I right or do I have it wrong?

MJD438 · Apr 16, 2012

Merlin said:
Is that true, or is it OK for them to use it during the stay? I would deduce by the judge implementing the stay is him saying I ruled like I did but you still do not have to follow it just yet until he is satisfied he has worked everything out.

Likewise if the 4th give MD a more permit stay that will last through the complete appeal process, there to I think the MSP can proceed as business as normal and keep using G&S to their hearts content. IF/when the one day loose the appeals process, they they will have to stop using it.

And I right or do I have it wrong?

IANAL, so I will defer to the one that has posted a wealth of information in this thread. Use and advanced search using the "Search this Thread" tool and look for user name esqappellate and you will see a wealth of commentary about the state's action and the legality of same.

Merlin · Apr 16, 2012

paulstitz said:
For the Business owner they want to see deposit slips with LARGE amounts of cash, then the permit will be restricted to the times the business owner is traveling to or from the bank with a large amount of money.

Ok, so show me what is a large amount of cash? Also business owners go to the banks all different times. Not just at 2pm every other Friday.

Also consider the bad guy always thinks the business owners is rich and they also think they have big money all of the time. So what is big money? The deposits from Home Depot or the local snowball stand?

Merlin · Apr 16, 2012

MJD438 said:
IANAL, so I will defer to the one that has posted a wealth of information in this thread. Use and advanced search using the "Search this Thread" tool and look for user name esqappellate and you will see a wealth of commentary about the state's action and the legality of same.

Thanks, And I know he is the man.

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