Grandfathered firearms

LongTom · Apr 6, 2016

I apologize if this question has already been asked. I used the search feature, but I didn't find anything to my liking. I am not a lawyer, and I am asking to learn.
I am here to ask questions about possible future situations involving an honest citizen running into trouble for possession of "2013 MD Gun Ban" legally grandfathered firearms.

1. What would happen if a citizen fails to provide proof that their weapon(s) are grandfathered? Sure, you could say that the burden of proof rests on the state, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't try confiscating your firearms as "evidence," dragging you into court, or even arresting you. Wouldn't they? If it hasn't happened yet, I would bet that it does, eventually.

I've heard horror stories about difficulty and damage reclaiming a confiscated firearm.

2. Does anybody have information of cases from any other states where otherwise legal firearms were confiscated on similar grounds?

3. Here's another question. If a citizen wants to take his grandfathered firearm out and about to use, would you think it to be advisable to bring the bill of sale along with to avoid possible harassment about it?

4. What would a citizen do that had an otherwise legal firearm that was modified in some way (replace butt stock with pistol grip, etc), that was now made illegal due to the ban, but modified before the ban?

If you say, "No," then how would they go about enforcing their new law?

Any information would be helpful. Thanks.

mac1_131 · Apr 6, 2016

they have all been answered to some degree before, but here is my take on your questions

1. In most cases (but not all) the state already has the info - from 77R's. There are still some legal circumstances where they don't, but I will guess 90% of the time they do. The burden of proof DOES rest with the state - but it is MD, so funny things can happen. I have not heard of any circumstances yet where someone "took the ride" only to find out later the rifle was grandfathered. Nor have I heard of random checks for banned rifles. It would come about as part of a larger prosecution IMHO, for other issues. Personally, I don't worry about it. I bring them to the range and transport them freely, as allowed in FSA2013.

2. I just don't see how what happens in other states has any applicability here in MD. Totally different laws, totally different procedures.

3. Up to you if you bring the bill of sale with you. If it was on a 77R, they already have the info. Myself, I do not. Theoretically, they cannot make the arrest unless they have probable cause that you have a banned weapon obtained after FSA2013 went into effect.

4. The example you give is false since pistol grip is not an evil feature in FSA2013. But the answer is same as #1, there are some legal circumstances where they will not have the 77R, and your example is one of them. Again, LEO needs to have PC that you modified the weapon after the effective date of FSA2013.

And you final question is how would they do that. Good question! Another poorly written law that has many provisions that would be difficult to enforce. It was designed to propel Martin O'Malley to the presidency. That didn't work either. The General Assembly was duped by the Governor and the LEOs are left with the pieces to pick up.

IANAL

Doctor_M · Apr 6, 2016

Just as a CYA, I had all of my grandfathered long guns photographed with inserts about date of purchase and serial numbers and had each page of that document date stamped by a Notary prior to the FSA-13 taking effect. I then sealed it in an envelope and put it in the safe.... just in case I ever need to "prove my innocence". Probably overkill, but it made me feel better at the time.

daggo66 · Apr 6, 2016

What exactly is your concern? The only real issue with "grandfathered" firearms is if you try to transfer them to someone else.

The only issue I've encountered was when I needed a relatively minor repair to my Mini 14. Ruger has a fantastic warranty and normally would have had me send in the gun for repair. Instead they were concerned that they couldn't ship it back to me. Instead they sent me all the necessary parts for free and I repaired it myself.

When you go to a range there is no one there to inspect for "banned" firearms.

cantstop · Apr 6, 2016

It's pretty easy to lookup production date from the serial number. If your gun was made prior to 10/1/13, you would have a pretty good case for it being grandfathered.

I really don't understand why folks worry about this. I guess if you open carry a lot you might get hassled for walking around with an AR-15. Other than that, I don't know of anyone getting questioned at a range or on their own farmland about their rifles.

Doctor_M · Apr 6, 2016

cantstop said:
... I really don't understand why folks worry about this. ....

Short answer: Because NOBODY trusts Annapolis (or DC).

There is a deep seated, and I would say well founded, fear in many of us that if our government gets an arbitrary urge to ruin your life, you are truly screwed. Best not to give them an opening to do so. I think that we've all seen plenty of cases where an honest, law-abiding citizen gets squashed for a technical or administrative violation.

LongTom · Apr 6, 2016

mac1_131 said:
they have all been answered to some degree before, but here is my take on your questions

1. In most cases (but not all) the state already has the info - from 77R's. There are still some legal circumstances where they don't, but I will guess 90% of the time they do. The burden of proof DOES rest with the state - but it is MD, so funny things can happen. I have not heard of any circumstances yet where someone "took the ride" only to find out later the rifle was grandfathered. Nor have I heard of random checks for banned rifles. It would come about as part of a larger prosecution IMHO, for other issues. Personally, I don't worry about it. I bring them to the range and transport them freely, as allowed in FSA2013.

2. I just don't see how what happens in other states has any applicability here in MD. Totally different laws, totally different procedures.

3. Up to you if you bring the bill of sale with you. If it was on a 77R, they already have the info. Myself, I do not. Theoretically, they cannot make the arrest unless they have probable cause that you have a banned weapon obtained after FSA2013 went into effect.

4. The example you give is false since pistol grip is not an evil feature in FSA2013. But the answer is same as #1, there are some legal circumstances where they will not have the 77R, and your example is one of them. Again, LEO needs to have PC that you modified the weapon after the effective date of FSA2013.

And you final question is how would they do that. Good question! Another poorly written law that has many provisions that would be difficult to enforce. It was designed to propel Martin O'Malley to the presidency. That didn't work either. The General Assembly was duped by the Governor and the LEOs are left with the pieces to pick up.

IANAL

Thank you very much for the answers.
1. Okay, thank you
2. I wasn't asking so much from a legal standpoint. I was just wondering if similar laws had experienced this pitfall for citizens, as a comparison / contrast.
3. I'm sure people are concerned, though.
4. Yes, I looked it up, and see where "pistol grip" was struck from the law. I didn't know that had happened. Thank you for the correction, and for the answer.

I still see this as a growing cause for concern as the years go by.

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