MSP Hi-Cap Mag Sting Question

Inigoes · Apr 20, 2014

woodstock said:
as from what i can tell of the new law, you can own, use, transport and store said magazine(s) if you purchased them BEFORE the new law went into effect. If ya don't save receipts, then the burden of proof is on the owner being questioned. border states to those who have a mag capacity ordinances are under extra scrutiny and any FFL who knowingly sold the "illegal" device may receive extra scrutiny for any and all transactions thereof.

STandard capacity magazine possession is legal.

Now: the sale, transfer, or whatever change of ownership is illegal in MD. An out of state transaction is legal.

MDshooters · Apr 20, 2014

woodstock said:
as from what i can tell of the new law, you can own, use, transport and store said magazine(s) if you purchased them BEFORE the new law went into effect. If ya don't save receipts, then the burden of proof is on the owner being questioned. border states to those who have a mag capacity ordinances are under extra scrutiny and any FFL who knowingly sold the "illegal" device may receive extra scrutiny for any and all transactions thereof.

Guys: Nothing has changed except for the capacity limit and perhaps some new wording like "Manufacture/Assemble".

I would like to see some real info on the rumored "sting" because I don't think MSP would really allot the time or funds for that right now.

-I am not a lawyer LOL

JSW · Apr 21, 2014

what i do know is that I can say I have magpul mags as well as other mags for sale from my shop , buy I can not say in Md what size they are. If I happen to have one for sale that has a larger capacity than Md allows I cannot even offer it for sale.

MDshooters · Apr 21, 2014

JSW said:
what i do know is that I can say I have magpul mags as well as other mags for sale from my shop , buy I can not say in Md what size they are. If I happen to have one for sale that has a larger capacity than Md allows I cannot even offer it for sale.

But what document did you read that rule in??

This is so sad. Everyone is stepping on eggshells concerning laws that are not even clear. Dude, no high-cap mag sales in Maryland, and thats it. No other rules. You can not let a person from MD buy it when in Maryland (aka online or over the phone). If said person comes to your shop in PA, you are under no obligation to, nor _should_ you prevent him from acquiring the mag legally while in PA. He, likewise, even while being a MD resident, is acting within the law when he purchases the mags, and transports them back into the state. You can say "Hey Goies! Come up to good o'l PA and get your mags" all you want, there is nothing PA, MD or anyone can do about it; cause it is not illegal.

LOL Now on the otherhand, if you said "I'm ***-in on down from good o'l PA and selling my mags here in MD so you don't have to make the trip" well... thats a different story... you can expect MSP to be visiting your stand.

JSW · Apr 21, 2014

my reading of the law says I can not offer for sale in Md. I can sell anything I have from my shop in Pa. to anyone that comes thru the door

protegeV · Apr 21, 2014

JSW said:
my reading of the law says I can not offer for sale in Md. I can sell anything I have from my shop in Pa. to anyone that comes thru the door

So what if someone calls asking for something, would that hinge on whether they announce themselves as a MD resident:

Maverick0313 · Apr 21, 2014

Inigoes said:
STandard capacity magazine possession is legal.

Now: the sale, transfer, or whatever change of ownership is illegal in MD. An out of state transaction is legal.

What he said..... :lol:

jrumann59 · Apr 21, 2014

Buy a gun with the mags price in the gun price or sell highly inflated omega lock and ship mags out of state :innocent0

protegeV · Apr 21, 2014

Inigoes said:
STandard capacity magazine possession is legal.

Now: the sale, transfer, or whatever change of ownership is illegal in MD. An out of state transaction is legal.

So what defines where the SALE occured? Where the funds changed hands, where the mags changed hands, where the receipt was filed? :shrug:

Inigoes · Apr 21, 2014

protegeV said:
So what defines where the SALE occured? Where the funds changed hands, where the mags changed hands, where the receipt was filed?

Where the post office delivers the package.

protegeV · Apr 21, 2014

Inigoes said:
Where the post office delivers the package.

can I get an amen :goodpost:

Mark75H · Apr 21, 2014

I'm afraid courts can be convinced its "all of the above"

All who disagree are welcome to be the test case

jrumann59 · Apr 21, 2014

Mark75H said:
I'm afraid courts can be convinced its "all of the above"

All who disagree are welcome to be the test case

Or people could just keep their mouth's shut talk to the dealer and keep it between themselves. :rolleyes:

Gryphon · Apr 21, 2014

There's no test case here provided the 10+ round magazines are not offered for sale or transferred within Maryland's borders. Maryland law stops at Maryland's borders. Maryland statute cannot and does not dictate or control what happens in other states. Maryland has no jurisdiction beyond its own borders. Moreover, Maryland law does not make the possession of a standard capacity (even above the now 10 round max.) magazine in Maryland illegal. It is not illegal to transport and possess a magazine in Maryland that you purchased and that was transferred to your possession outside of Maryland. This is no different than the treatment of 20+ round rifle magazines prior to Oct. 1, i.e. you could purchase and take possession of a 30 round magazine outside of Maryland and bring it into Maryland and possess it. So now the only magazines that can be transferred or offered for sale within Maryland are those with ten 10 rounds or less capacity. It's that simple.

Mark75H · Apr 21, 2014

jrumann59 said:
Or people could just keep their mouth's shut talk to the dealer and keep it between themselves.

Note the title of this thread is about a possible sting.

Gryphon said:
There's no test case here provided the 10+ round magazines are not offered for sale or transferred within Maryland's borders. Maryland law stops at Maryland's borders. Maryland statute cannot and does not dictate or control what happens in other states. Maryland has no jurisdiction beyond its own borders. Moreover, Maryland law does not make the possession of a standard capacity (even above the now 10 round max.) magazine in Maryland illegal. It is not illegal to transport and possess a magazine in Maryland that you purchased and that was transferred to your possession outside of Maryland. This is no different than the treatment of 20+ round rifle magazines prior to Oct. 1, i.e. you could purchase and take possession of a 30 round magazine outside of Maryland and bring it into Maryland and possess it. So now the only magazines that can be transferred or offered for sale within Maryland are those with ten 10 rounds or less capacity. It's that simple.

And all correct. This thread is about the possible complication of a mag delivered to a FFL in MD as part of a package delivered to MD and paid for by a MD resident. MD 01 FFL's can legally receive std cap mags and can sell them out of state from their place of business.

Did the purchaser of the package purchase the mag?

mward · Apr 21, 2014

MDshooters said:
But what document did you read that rule in??

This is so sad. Everyone is stepping on eggshells concerning laws that are not even clear. Dude, no high-cap mag sales in Maryland, and thats it. No other rules. You can not let a person from MD buy it when in Maryland (aka online or over the phone). If said person comes to your shop in PA, you are under no obligation to, nor _should_ you prevent him from acquiring the mag legally while in PA. He, likewise, even while being a MD resident, is acting within the law when he purchases the mags, and transports them back into the state. You can say "Hey Goies! Come up to good o'l PA and get your mags" all you want, there is nothing PA, MD or anyone can do about it; cause it is not illegal.

LOL Now on the otherhand, if you said "I'm ***-in on down from good o'l PA and selling my mags here in MD so you don't have to make the trip" well... thats a different story... you can expect MSP to be visiting your stand.

Good old commerce clause.

MDshooters · Apr 21, 2014

mward said:
Good old commerce clause.

Ok, so that is something from PA's commerce clause with MD?

Inigoes · Apr 21, 2014

MDshooters said:
Ok, so that is something from PA's commerce clause with MD?

The Federal Commerce Clause...

Odiferous Maximus · Apr 21, 2014

A few weeks ago I saw a federal prosecutor on TV saying to the effect of "Even there's no law against what (some guy) did, it's still illegal and we're going to prosecute."

Even if you're wrongly prosecuted and the State ends up dropping charges, you'll still pay out the wazoo and there will be no repurcussions for the State.

Maybe the law should stipulate a hefty civil rights violation payment for such a situation?

protegeV · Apr 21, 2014

Odiferous Maximus said:
Maybe the law should stipulate a hefty civil rights violation payment for such a situation?

MSP Hi-Cap Mag Sting Question

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