Quail/Upland bird gun

jimbobborg · Jul 24, 2015

I may or may not be getting another English Pointer this year, as I had to have my Eddie put down earlier this year. This one should be a hunter. As I've never purposely pursued quail or grouse, I don't have a shotgun specific for this application. My current shotgun arsenal includes (all 12 gauges) an open choke Winchester 87 repro, a 28" barreled SxS with IC/M fixed chokes, and an FN SLP Tactical. I've used the SxS on doves with some success. However, for quail, grouse, pheasants, and other birds, would it still be viable, or should I get a dedicated shotgun in a smaller gauge? I've heard 16, 20, or 28 gauge SxS would be the classic shotgun to use on these birds. Would I be ill equipped with a SxS? I'd just like some opinions from folks I trust versus random folks on the Intewebz. Thanks.

fabsroman · Jul 24, 2015

jimbobborg said:
I may or may not be getting another English Pointer this year, as I had to have my Eddie put down earlier this year. This one should be a hunter. As I've never purposely pursued quail or grouse, I don't have a shotgun specific for this application. My current shotgun arsenal includes (all 12 gauges) an open choke Winchester 87 repro, a 28" barreled SxS with IC/M fixed chokes, and an FN SLP Tactical. I've used the SxS on doves with some success. However, for quail, grouse, pheasants, and other birds, would it still be viable, or should I get a dedicated shotgun in a smaller gauge? I've heard 16, 20, or 28 gauge SxS would be the classic shotgun to use on these birds. Would I be ill equipped with a SxS? I'd just like some opinions from folks I trust versus random folks on the Intewebz. Thanks.

First question, are you going to be hunting wild quail in some other state, or shooting pen raised birds that are put out in the field in Maryland?

I have only shot quail that are pen raised and planted. Last time I went with my brothers and my dad, we killed 94 out of the 100 that were put out. We were pretty much all using 12 gauge guns. 2 brothers were using 12 gauge semis. My dad was using a 12 gauge o/u. I was the only one using a 20 gauge, and that was a semi with an IC choke. If you are doing this type of shooting, then your SxS will be just fine because you really are not walking all that much. Granted, if recoil might be an issue, then opt for a 20 gauge.

Now, if you are actually hunting wild quail, then the SxS would be fine once again. The 12 gauge will give you a little bit more range/room for error.

Traditionally though, quail are hunted with double barrel guns that are small gauge guns. I think 16 gauge would even be on the larger side of it as far as the traditionalists are concerned.

Now, it does make for a good excuse to buy a new gun. lol

Overboost44 · Jul 24, 2015

I saw a couple of nice Ithaca 37 lightweights at the HoCo show last weekend. A 16ga and a 20ga. I always liked those guns. Very nice for upland game.

STeveZ · Jul 24, 2015

My bird gun is a 20 gauge Beretta O/U w/ 28" barrels. Very light to carry and big enough for anything from woodcock to pheasant. CZ makes nice side-by's at a reasonable price in 20 and 28. They are similarly light and good looking plus they can be had with the pistol grip and beavertail forend many American shooters prefer. Check your PM re: pointers.

jimbobborg · Jul 25, 2015

Virginia is trying to re-introduce quail so I'll be hitting one of the wildlife management areas where they are doing quail releases. Not many hunters go there, so hopefully there are survivors. Assuming fox and coyotes haven't eaten them all. Another WMA is a travel route for migrating grouse, so they're all wild. And I don't plan on living here forever, so if I do make my way westward, I'll be maybe into some pheasant. I'm guessing that the 12 gauge should work for pheasant. Obviously it works for the smaller birds. I think I'll be looking at some 20 and 28 gauge SxSs.

Now that I'm thinking about it, what barrel length would be good for close in birds like this? Stevez is recommending 28" barrels, which my current SxS is. Would close up shooting be better with shorter barrels? And why do people use longer barrels?

fabsroman · Jul 25, 2015

jimbobborg said:
Virginia is trying to re-introduce quail so I'll be hitting one of the wildlife management areas where they are doing quail releases. Not many hunters go there, so hopefully there are survivors. Assuming fox and coyotes haven't eaten them all. Another WMA is a travel route for migrating grouse, so they're all wild. And I don't plan on living here forever, so if I do make my way westward, I'll be maybe into some pheasant. I'm guessing that the 12 gauge should work for pheasant. Obviously it works for the smaller birds. I think I'll be looking at some 20 and 28 gauge SxSs.

Now that I'm thinking about it, what barrel length would be good for close in birds like this? Stevez is recommending 28" barrels, which my current SxS is. Would close up shooting be better with shorter barrels? And why do people use longer barrels?

Barrel length has a couple of issues, none of which has anything to do with the pattern that the gun with throw.

Short barrels are easier to get up to speed quickly, but they are also easier to slow down. So, you can get on target quicker, but you also run the risk of slowing/stopping your swing too soon.

Short barrels weigh less, so they are easier to carry all day long.

Short barrels are easier to maneuver in tight quarters, like brush or a hunting blind.

Long barrels are heavier, reduce felt recoil, and help prevent novices from stopping their swing early.

Long barrels have a longer sighting plane, which helps people get on target.

I am split between an o/u and a semi. I could go either way.

Ideal pheasant/chukar/partridge gun would be 12 gauge with 24" barrel(s).
Ideal quail/woodcock gun would be 20 gauge or 28 gauge with 24" barrel(s).

o/u would be a Beretta 687 EELL in presentation grade.
semi would be a Benelli Legacy.

Both guns come in 12, 20, and 28 gauge. Both guns might land me in the dog house.

STeveZ · Jul 25, 2015

jimbobborg said:
Another WMA is a travel route for migrating grouse, so they're all wild.

Grouse don't migrate, you may be thinking about woodcock?

jimbobborg said:
And I don't plan on living here forever, so if I do make my way westward, I'll be maybe into some pheasant. I'm guessing that the 12 gauge should work for pheasant. Obviously it works for the smaller birds. I think I'll be looking at some 20 and 28 gauge SxSs.

A 20 will work for pheasant but a 12 is better, especially for wild birds.

jimbobborg said:
And why do people use longer barrels?

Longer barrels in general promote a smooth swing and follow through. More specifically that extra few inches helps you to swing and follow through on more distant targets. Conversely shorter barrels, in my opinion, can lead to a jerky swing and difficulty acquiring and maintaining a proper lead as the shot is taken.

There are a lot of good deals out there on used 26" doubles, the reason being shooters prefer 28's and 30's. But a 26 will do the job, I wouldn't recommend anything shorter for a double gun. Bear in mind that a semi-auto's receiver is 2-3" longer than a double's, so a 26" semi is equal to a 28"+ double barrel gun.

fabsroman · Jul 26, 2015

STeveZ said:
Grouse don't migrate, you may be thinking about woodcock?

A 20 will work for pheasant but a 12 is better, especially for wild birds.

Longer barrels in general promote a smooth swing and follow through. More specifically that extra few inches helps you to swing and follow through on more distant targets. Conversely shorter barrels, in my opinion, can lead to a jerky swing and difficulty acquiring and maintaining a proper lead as the shot is taken.

There are a lot of good deals out there on used 26" doubles, the reason being shooters prefer 28's and 30's. But a 26 will do the job, I wouldn't recommend anything shorter for a double gun. Bear in mind that a semi-auto's receiver is 2-3" longer than a double's, so a 26" semi is equal to a 28"+ double barrel gun.

Funny how that is nowadays. Skeet shooters used to prefer really short barrels. Now, they are using 28" at the minimum and some are using 30". I use my 30" sporting clays o/u for skeet or my 28" semi.

As far as a 26" semi being equal to a 28" double, yes and no. It is equal sighting plan wise, but swing is entirely a different thing because the 28" double should be a lot heavier out by the muzzle. Of course, they make mag cap weights nowadays to take care of the weight problem to a degree on the semis.

I know a couple guys that hunt waterfowl with a 24" Benelli. Not my cup of tea, but it seems to work for them.

jimbobborg · Jul 26, 2015

STeveZ said:
Grouse don't migrate, you may be thinking about woodcock?

Yes, woodcock.

STeveZ said:
A 20 will work for pheasant but a 12 is better, especially for wild birds.

Okay, so I'll keep the 12.

STeveZ said:
Longer barrels in general promote a smooth swing and follow through. More specifically that extra few inches helps you to swing and follow through on more distant targets. Conversely shorter barrels, in my opinion, can lead to a jerky swing and difficulty acquiring and maintaining a proper lead as the shot is taken.

Since I'm avoiding the clay games, this is something I don't know about. You and Fabs did a good job explaining this.

STeveZ said:
There are a lot of good deals out there on used 26" doubles, the reason being shooters prefer 28's and 30's. But a 26 will do the job, I wouldn't recommend anything shorter for a double gun. Bear in mind that a semi-auto's receiver is 2-3" longer than a double's, so a 26" semi is equal to a 28"+ double barrel gun.

I'm guessing this part depends on the shotguns. My FN SLP with 22" barrel is about 1" shorter OAL than my 28" SxS.

Magnumite · Jul 29, 2015

Nice thread

StantonCree · Jul 29, 2015

fabsroman said:
First question, are you going to be hunting wild quail in some other state, or shooting pen raised birds that are put out in the field in Maryland?

I have only shot quail that are pen raised and planted. Last time I went with my brothers and my dad, we killed 94 out of the 100 that were put out. We were pretty much all using 12 gauge guns. 2 brothers were using 12 gauge semis. My dad was using a 12 gauge o/u. I was the only one using a 20 gauge, and that was a semi with an IC choke. If you are doing this type of shooting, then your SxS will be just fine because you really are not walking all that much. Granted, if recoil might be an issue, then opt for a 20 gauge.

Now, if you are actually hunting wild quail, then the SxS would be fine once again. The 12 gauge will give you a little bit more range/room for error.

Traditionally though, quail are hunted with double barrel guns that are small gauge guns. I think 16 gauge would even be on the larger side of it as far as the traditionalists are concerned.

Now, it does make for a good excuse to buy a new gun. lol

Let me sum this up....

Your sXs will do you just fine......enjoy!

fabsroman · Jul 29, 2015

mpdc4511 said:
Let me sum this up....

Your sXs will do you just fine......enjoy!

Most of us can accomplish everything we need to with a single shotgun, handgun, and rifle. However, what the heck is the fun in that? Now, I will deny everything in that first sentence if you ever try to tell my wife I said that.

My Benelli SBE pretty much takes care of every type of shotgun hunting situation I come across. However, I still think about a 10 gauge for waterfowling, a nice 20 gauge small frame o/u, a sweet 28 gauge semi just because, etc. The rifle list is even longer but the collection is probably sufficient for anything I will ever need, other than dangerous game in Africa, which might never happen.

sxs · Jul 30, 2015

As others have stated, a sxs is perfect for upland hunting (says the guy who loves 'em so much, its my userID!)...provided chokes are open enough. Many of them are choke modified and full....too tight for hunting over dogs, IMHO. If those are the chokes you have, you can help matters somewhat by going online and buying shells with spread-r wads which will open your pattern by 1 - 2 degrees of choke. Whatever you use, pattern at the distances at which you expect to be hunting. If your pattern is just a bit tight, you can let the birds get a little further out before pulling the trigger (unless your hunting buddies are quick on their shots like most of mine are

)

When I hunt over dogs, typical is to hunt over pointing dogs which will flush on command, but I prefer for me or my hunting buddies to walk in and do the flush. That accomplishes 2 things: 1) much less likely to have a bird take off low with the dog right behind it and 2) much more time to get on the bird after it gets up. It does mean however, I need really open chokes. My preference for my O/Us (Citori and Guerini) or my 2 SxSs that have tubes (20ga Daly and 12 ga SKB) is skeet (between cyl and IC) and light Mod (or skeet 2 if you have one) for a follow up. My older guns are choked way too tight for close in hunting over dogs, but the aforementioned Spreader wads make hunting close in manageable....as long as I don't get on 'em and shoot too quickly. The really nice thing about doubles...either O/U or SxS, is your common first shot is usually really close in and your followups are further out. So the 2 different chokes can work really well on such bird hunting. Also, with a 2 trigger gun, you have an instant selection of chokes in case you want the tighter choke for wild flushing birds (with practice you can also select chokes pretty well with a single selective trigger double that has the selector on the tang). I have nothing against use of pumps or semi-autos...I have those as well. But for hunting/flushing with dogs, I really do greatly prefer a double.

Regarding what FAbs said about shorter barrels: I have an late 80's Daly flyweight SST and ejectors. Love the gun and it's weight...but the barrels are just 25". I do have to practice with the gun since a I won't make a good swing on a bird that makes a hard turn. There is a tendency to stop the swing. I am not a fan of really long barrels in the field however. Most of my guns are 28" barrels although I have a Fox with 30" barrels.

jimbobborg · Jul 31, 2015

mpdc4511 said:
Let me sum this up....

Your sXs will do you just fine......enjoy!

fabsroman said:
However, what the heck is the fun in that?

Exactly!

fabsroman said:
My Benelli SBE pretty much takes care of every type of shotgun hunting situation I come across. However, I still think about a 10 gauge for waterfowling, a nice 20 gauge small frame o/u, a sweet 28 gauge semi just because, etc. The rifle list is even longer but the collection is probably sufficient for anything I will ever need, other than dangerous game in Africa, which might never happen.

By the time I can afford a safari gun, I'll be too old to move :lol:

sxs said:
As others have stated, a sxs is perfect for upland hunting (says the guy who loves 'em so much, its my userID!)...provided chokes are open enough. Many of them are choke modified and full....too tight for hunting over dogs, IMHO. If those are the chokes you have, you can help matters somewhat by going online and buying shells with spread-r wads which will open your pattern by 1 - 2 degrees of choke. Whatever you use, pattern at the distances at which you expect to be hunting. If your pattern is just a bit tight, you can let the birds get a little further out before pulling the trigger (unless your hunting buddies are quick on their shots like most of mine are )

When I hunt over dogs, typical is to hunt over pointing dogs which will flush on command, but I prefer for me or my hunting buddies to walk in and do the flush. That accomplishes 2 things: 1) much less likely to have a bird take off low with the dog right behind it and 2) much more time to get on the bird after it gets up. It does mean however, I need really open chokes. My preference for my O/Us (Citori and Guerini) or my 2 SxSs that have tubes (20ga Daly and 12 ga SKB) is skeet (between cyl and IC) and light Mod (or skeet 2 if you have one) for a follow up. My older guns are choked way too tight for close in hunting over dogs, but the aforementioned Spreader wads make hunting close in manageable....as long as I don't get on 'em and shoot too quickly. The really nice thing about doubles...either O/U or SxS, is your common first shot is usually really close in and your followups are further out. So the 2 different chokes can work really well on such bird hunting. Also, with a 2 trigger gun, you have an instant selection of chokes in case you want the tighter choke for wild flushing birds (with practice you can also select chokes pretty well with a single selective trigger double that has the selector on the tang). I have nothing against use of pumps or semi-autos...I have those as well. But for hunting/flushing with dogs, I really do greatly prefer a double.

Regarding what FAbs said about shorter barrels: I have an late 80's Daly flyweight SST and ejectors. Love the gun and it's weight...but the barrels are just 25". I do have to practice with the gun since a I won't make a good swing on a bird that makes a hard turn. There is a tendency to stop the swing. I am not a fan of really long barrels in the field however. Most of my guns are 28" barrels although I have a Fox with 30" barrels.

So with a shorter barrel on doubles, it's more about practice, right? Or am I reading that wrong? My FN is almost as long as my 28" SxS, but it weighs significantly more. If I'm hiking up a mountain after woodcock and grouse, I'd assume that will really slow me down, which is why I'm looking for a lighter shotgun.

ohen cepel · Jul 31, 2015

I have a Browning BPS Upland in 20 that I really like. Short and light which is nice if you are walking the fields long. I would give it a hard look if you would consider a pump. Very well made yet at a good price point.

Brent · Aug 2, 2015

Never go wrong with a subgauge double barrel. For me those stay on the skeet range And My 20ga benelli m2 field goes hunting

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